PoE's item trading system

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... The buyer goes to the seller’s HO and purchases directly from the shop. ...
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Edit: Simple solution...as long as the seller still has to invite you to the party in order to visit his/her shop, then there is no issue with the seller afking and leaving the shop open


If the seller is afk, how can they invite the buyer to a party? If the seller can go afk and leave the shop open, then that leaves the door open for easy automation, which defeats the purpose of having buyer go into seller's hideout. I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting.


It would be easy enough even in the current system if GGG were to restrict it to online and not in AFK mode, especially if the system updated more often. What my system aims at are for all the instances a trade is requested and the seller considers whatever he/she to be doing more pressing. Take Delve for example, the seller would have to complete it and be willing to return to his/her HO or log off just to make the trade. 1 portal Zana missions, abysses, labyrinths, anytime the time/portal cost of teleporting to your HO isn’t worth the value of a sold item. I have several things for sale only if I’m already in my HO...not many want to leave a map for a 1c sale. More items would be listed for lesser amounts which would affect market conditions for good or ill. Bulk discounts would mostly be gone, again good or ill.

Think about it. How much more likely are you to get no response for a 1c sale than for a 1 ex sale.
I strongly recommend avoiding all tools that price check. There have been several reported bans for breaching the ToS, and I suspect this is the cause.
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Mortyx wrote:
Ok i am going to give you a challenge: within one league run 10 chayulas breachstones and three 5 way timeless conflicts with a build that requires 6 of the same unique jewel and uses low life and requires an enchanted helmet to work. No trading/taxi allowed.


The logic here is flawed, and you know it. Of course trade will be the central game mechanic if you MAKE it the central game mechanic. But no one is forcing you, not even GGG. In my eyes, killing monsters and progressing your character are the central game mechanics. There's a reason why rare stuff is rare; it's supposed to be rare and hard to get. If you choose to bypass that through trade, that IS a choice, no matter how you twist and turn it.

Trade is a tool. It's far from the central game mechanic, unless - of course - you choose to make it that.
Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
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Phrazz wrote:
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Mortyx wrote:
Ok i am going to give you a challenge: within one league run 10 chayulas breachstones and three 5 way timeless conflicts with a build that requires 6 of the same unique jewel and uses low life and requires an enchanted helmet to work. No trading/taxi allowed.


The logic here is flawed, and you know it. Of course trade will be the central game mechanic if you MAKE it the central game mechanic. But no one is forcing you, not even GGG. In my eyes, killing monsters and progressing your character are the central game mechanics. There's a reason why rare stuff is rare; it's supposed to be rare and hard to get. If you choose to bypass that through trade, that IS a choice, no matter how you twist and turn it.

Trade is a tool. It's far from the central game mechanic, unless - of course - you choose to make it that.


If that was true, the rare content DROPS should be rare, not the access to the content. Let's say my character progression is behind a jewel that only drops from chayula at 5% chance, this means i would have to kill 20 chayulas, on average, to get it, unfortunately it's pretty much impossible in SSF to get 20 chayulas in 3 months, so the game is actively blocking me of "killing monsters" and "progressing my character" unless i trade for the splinters/breachstones.

You would be right if the Chayula jewel(for example) had a 0,05% chance of dropping but they raised the splinters drops by 1000x. In which case i would be able to farm mosnters>>get splinters>farm chayulas instead of the farm monsters>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get splinters >>>>>>>>>>> farm chayula.
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Mortyx wrote:
If that was true, the rare content DROPS should be rare, not the access to the content. Let's say my character progression is behind a jewel that only drops from chayula at 5% chance, this means i would have to kill 20 chayulas, on average, to get it, unfortunately it's pretty much impossible in SSF to get 20 chayulas in 3 months, so the game is actively blocking me of "killing monsters" and "progressing my character" unless i trade for the splinters/breachstones.

You would be right if the Chayula jewel(for example) had a 0,05% chance of dropping but they raised the splinters drops by 1000x. In which case i would be able to farm mosnters>>get splinters>farm chayulas instead of the farm monsters>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get splinters >>>>>>>>>>> farm chayula.


Your logic is still flawed.

If you CHOOSE to build your character around a certain unique that is very hard to get, you are (of course) making yourself dependent on trade. For a lot of people, those kind of builds are only a goal IF those uniques happen to drop on another character. But even if trading is needed, it's not THE CENTRAL mechanic of the game.

Look, it is as I said: If you CHOOSE to let trading the central mechanic in the game, it may very well be. I'm not saying it isn't important. Or powerful. Or needed. I'm saying it's not THE CENTRAL mechanic. PLAYING, killing monsters and progressing is still MORE CENTRAL mechanics.
Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
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Phrazz wrote:

Your logic is still flawed.

If you CHOOSE to build your character around a certain unique that is very hard to get, you are (of course) making yourself dependent on trade. For a lot of people, those kind of builds are only a goal IF those uniques happen to drop on another character. But even if trading is needed, it's not THE CENTRAL mechanic of the game.

Look, it is as I said: If you CHOOSE to let trading the central mechanic in the game, it may very well be. I'm not saying it isn't important. Or powerful. Or needed. I'm saying it's not THE CENTRAL mechanic. PLAYING, killing monsters and progressing is still MORE CENTRAL mechanics.


I've enjoyed seeing other responses but arguing which part of the game is more central is so beside the point. Trading interrupts gameplay too frequently and is necessary on any build.

Sure, there are builds that can mostly function from SSF item drops but those builds will require more playtime and always be less powerful than another character playing alongside trade.

So you enjoy farming vaal side areas simply to find the specific vaal gem for your build? That's the type of thing you are suggesting is a choice. Yeah just hit vaal monsters until you get the right one! But it gets much worse in advanced examples, like trying to acquire elder or shape infused rares to increase power. They only feasible way to get specialized OR top tier items is trade therefore trade is important. Who cares if trade is #1 or #2 most important to game enjoyment it is part of it.

Trading substantially reduces playtime farming boring content and lets you make more fun and powerful builds. SSF has its own niche where you extend your character's growth in drop diversity but at a lower power cap. I think most players agree it's more fun to chase powerful items using trade than farming another 100 hours. But just make trade better.
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Sigrosa wrote:
I've enjoyed seeing other responses but arguing which part of the game is more central is so beside the point. Trading interrupts gameplay too frequently and is necessary on any build.


You may be right.

But how "central" you view trading, often goes hand in hand with what types of trading changes you want. If the "trading is the most important thing in this game"-crowd get their way, it will destroy the game for people like me. That's why I'm pretty active and direct in threads about trade. A game can have no trading, it can have some trading, it can have limited trading - but the moment it gets automated, non-limited trading, is the moment the rest of the game gets too devalued.

That's why it's just stupid to say "make trade better" without examples or suggestions. Because a "better trade system" makes the GAME better, not trading faster. THE GAME is the focus, not how convenient and easy it is to acquire gear through trade.

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I think most players agree it's more fun to chase powerful items using trade than farming another 100 hours.


You can think whatever you want. I think dropping/crafting a GG weapon will ALWAYS be more rewarding that sending a WTB. Farming 100 Chayula splinters will always be more rewarding than buying them. Finally getting the last emblem is more rewarding than buying it. And I think "a lot" of players agree with me. I will never be so deluded as to use "most players", though.

One thing the current system does well, is preserving the in-game progression and balance. Can the trade system be done better, while still preserving it? Sure. But if they overdo it, the GAME is... Gone, and only trading remains.

Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
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Phrazz wrote:
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Sigrosa wrote:
I've enjoyed seeing other responses but arguing which part of the game is more central is so beside the point. Trading interrupts gameplay too frequently and is necessary on any build.


You may be right.

But how "central" you view trading, often goes hand in hand with what types of trading changes you want. If the "trading is the most important thing in this game"-crowd get their way, it will destroy the game for people like me. That's why I'm pretty active and direct in threads about trade. A game can have no trading, it can have some trading, it can have limited trading - but the moment it gets automated, non-limited trading, is the moment the rest of the game gets too devalued.

That's why it's just stupid to say "make trade better" without examples or suggestions. Because a "better trade system" makes the GAME better, not trading faster. THE GAME is the focus, not how convenient and easy it is to acquire gear through trade.

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I think most players agree it's more fun to chase powerful items using trade than farming another 100 hours.


You can think whatever you want. I think dropping/crafting a GG weapon will ALWAYS be more rewarding that sending a WTB. Farming 100 Chayula splinters will always be more rewarding than buying them. Finally getting the last emblem is more rewarding than buying it. And I think "a lot" of players agree with me. I will never be so deluded as to use "most players", though.

One thing the current system does well, is preserving the in-game progression and balance. Can the trade system be done better, while still preserving it? Sure. But if they overdo it, the GAME is... Gone, and only trading remains.



I haven't said "just make it better" read my other posts.

There's plenty of arguments made for changes that don't automate every part of trade, or only for items that are simply a hassle or not feasible to farm over the course of a league like splinters.

Most of this has been a discussion about improving the functionality of trade without impacting item acquisition negatively and has been stated many times.

There's nothing strange about saying most players like fun, interesting or powerful builds. Of course everyone prefers to see items drop than trade for them. It seems like your POV is basically saying trade cannot be improved and if it's changed PoE dies. Great, thanks.
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Sigrosa wrote:
I haven't said "just make it better" read my other posts.


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Sigrosa wrote:
But just make trade better.


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Sigrosa wrote:
There's plenty of arguments made for changes that don't automate every part of trade, or only for items that are simply a hassle or not feasible to farm over the course of a league like splinters.

Most of this has been a discussion about improving the functionality of trade without impacting item acquisition negatively and has been stated many times.

There's nothing strange about saying most players like fun, interesting or powerful builds. Of course everyone prefers to see items drop than trade for them. It seems like your POV is basically saying trade cannot be improved and if it's changed PoE dies. Great, thanks.


I haven't said I'm opposed to trading improvements. Read my posts :P

I am not, and will never be. What I'm advocating, though, is smart changes, that have focus of making the GAME BETTER, not TRADING FASTER. It IS dangerous, though, as if they do it wrong, there's not really the option of "turning back". Once they opened that box, it's open - forever. As I've said in MANY posts:

As long as they keep the requirement of being online to trade, as well as the requirement of YOU doing the trade yourself, I don't think they can go wrong. Sadly, this isn't "well met" by many players, who just want easy, instant access to everything they FEEL they NEED - when they need it, which devalues the whole freakin' game.

So no, I will never be opposed to improvements. But I am opposed to improvements if they are done for the wrong reasons.
Phrazz has changed his ways. Forget his past, embrace the present.
My suggestion. Not automated.

Buyer whispers to seller this message with a special [TradeOffer] tag :

@pphnx [TradeOffer] Hi, I would like to buy your Dread Charm Deadhand Talisman listed for 1 chromatic in Blight (stash tab "~price 1 chrom"; position: left 3, top 9)

if seller got a message with this [TradeOffer] tag; two button appears at the end of the message : accept / reject.

If the seller accepts; seller and buyer are kinda trade partners right now. its like party. buyer can visit the sellers ho. but cant use sellers portals

when the buyer visits sellers ho; trade window pops up for just the buyer. seller's item apears on the top. buyer puts his offer to the trade window clicks accept. seller does not have to be in his ho at that moment.

when buyer accepts trade; seller gets a trade invitation.
if seller responds trade invitation; trade window is opened for the seller. (seller not in his ho) seller can accepts or rejects the trade. seller kicks buyer from trade partnership(like kicking from party)

its not automated.

buyer will still has to visit the sellers hideout. seller does not have to visit his ho. he can still mapping, playing etc...

a lot of implementation, verification(buyer can manipulate the [TradeOffer] message) and server load needed though.

Server must verificate this bold values in the message below

@pphnx [TradeOffer] Hi, I would like to buy your Dread Charm Deadhand Talisman listed for 1 chromatic in Blight (stash tab "~price 1 chrom"; position: left 3, top 9)

this will bring a lot of server load.

another way is removal of pathofexile.com/trade and making in-game item search that will cost a ton of implementation.

Last edited by pphnx on Nov 28, 2019, 9:16:33 AM
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Phrazz wrote:
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Okay, I apologize for not paraphrasing everything in each reply and over-simplifying. I even post the chinese version of the trading system without caveats in my initial post but if you read further much of that I think would damage the game.

It's funny though I have enjoyed playing PoE both ways hardcore SSF, and the other side using trade to shortcut into harder content. But I think there is a lot of content in the game you can't even get to. Big example is splinters. Or boss fights requiring many items like that. I want to try this hard content but you need to farm many hours and accumulate currency simply to attempt these encounters.

Honestly I would appreciate a mode where bosses drop no loot so I could simply try some of these with different builds if that's what it takes.

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