GGG do not give in to the crying masses

+1

Damn.

It happens again, now with map drops.

AH is next patch?

I agree in principle with the OP, though not entirely with the chosen example (why would damage numbers be called out? It could be useful for testing). That said, the main issue I have right now is that I actually feel GGG didn't far enough. While PoE doesn't seem as far of a step back from D2's complexity and arbitrariness as say D3, it does still feel like a step back to me.

I know a lot of people remember Iron Maiden and elemental immunities with a foul taste in their mouth, but to me they were a perfect example of a game feature designed to present a wall. Why would this be good? Because beating walls feels rewarding, for the same reason that such features cause anguish in the first place. I remember the first time I made a D2 build to kill immune enemies with their own element, I was positively giddy with glee.

The problem is that with PoE I see very few walls, instead GGG seems to favor slopes. And further, the kind of build that deliberately, 'breaks', an intended mechanic in general is missing. I think that in fact that despite the massive passive skill tree, and the mechanics involved in active skills, there is actually substantially less variation, both in terms of absolute builds, and in terms of varying styles/effectiveness, than in D2. Yes, part of this can be put down the current, 'HP is king', phenomenon, but not all of it.

I feel as though we've lost out on variation at the altars of balance and accessibility, and I regret that, heavily.

"

Valmar wrote:

Damn.

It happens again, now with map drops.

AH is next patch?

Can you hardcore freaks be every happy? Your posts here and in the patch notes section are the same obnoxious memes and 1 liners.

I hope the game feels bad enough that you are gone for good.

I'm very happy that the OP and Valmar-type guys got boned by the latest patch. The game still need a lot of rework but there might be a hope. Hope that the game will be enjoyable by more than few elitist masochists that like to torture themselves day and nights.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Many forum goers read to misunderstand,

Just like you purposely did in the looting thread. Crazy how people can't take their own advice.

"

TemetNosce wrote:

I agree in principle with the OP, though not entirely with the chosen example (why would damage numbers be called out? It could be useful for testing). That said, the main issue I have right now is that I actually feel GGG didn't far enough. While PoE doesn't seem as far of a step back from D2's complexity and arbitrariness as say D3, it does still feel like a step back to me.

I know a lot of people remember Iron Maiden and elemental immunities with a foul taste in their mouth, but to me they were a perfect example of a game feature designed to present a wall. Why would this be good? Because beating walls feels rewarding, for the same reason that such features cause anguish in the first place. I remember the first time I made a D2 build to kill immune enemies with their own element, I was positively giddy with glee.

The problem is that with PoE I see very few walls, instead GGG seems to favor slopes. And further, the kind of build that deliberately, 'breaks', an intended mechanic in general is missing. I think that in fact that despite the massive passive skill tree, and the mechanics involved in active skills, there is actually substantially less variation, both in terms of absolute builds, and in terms of varying styles/effectiveness, than in D2. Yes, part of this can be put down the current, 'HP is king', phenomenon, but not all of it.

I feel as though we've lost out on variation at the altars of balance and accessibility, and I regret that, heavily.

It may not have been the ideal example i chose, yet, it was the very example that triggered this thread. Had you read the post i read you would see why i linked floating damage numbers to more mindlessness. It was marked by those who come from, for example D3, and arrive into this game and want GGG to do everything according to the mindless standards they are used to. Who cares about understanding the math behind your build, you can just see big numbers which in the end only clutters up more and will be just another toggle option for the masses, if you desire, added for those who have not yet realized it is superfluous. The game must lead not follow those who are behind in understanding, catering to those. The first thing i thought when i entered this game was where is my hp bars dammit, how can i fight like this, i raged and even created a post on it. Soon i realized it was the result of my own mediocrity.

I am very hesitant to suggest improvements until i understand the full complexity of PoE, since those suggestions would come from a partly understanding, and thus, broken in principle. However, you do bring up something interesting that triggers some connections in my mind. The reliance on HP or other surviveability nodes, among other things such as the walls you mention, the loss of paper scissor feel. Let us compare PoE to D2 where you had mostly offensive talent choices, with some defensive ones. Well, basically what i mean to say it that in PoE we are much more reliant on using our points defensively, in addition to our gear as it only enhances it, whereas in D2 the power of our gear alone was almost enough, allowing us to focus our creative energy into ways of creating something viable with ample destructive force.

It does not necessarily hinder build variation, yet, one might argue that if some defensive power was shifted towards gear away from the talent tree, we were free to use more than around a third of our points offensively in the average build, and that would cause us to focus our energy on creating offensive builds, and in the process more builds would be viable that before would require more points than was possible.

It would also mean that the size of the tree was reduced as defensive points were removed, and that it would be easier to create successful builds as you basically needed mostly the gear to survive. In that sense i am not sure it would be worth shifting the defensive balance, as then you are not forced to balance defense vs offense to such a high degree.

As you have just witnessed, attempting to come up with ideas with an incomplete understanding often just tends to end up in you realizing that the cause is something else than you had assumed, yet i will leave the above here as not to create a barren post. Maybe it is the phenomenon of not wanting to create something that cannot be defeated by all that removes the walls you mention.

"

Baron01 wrote:

"

Valmar wrote:

Damn.

It happens again, now with map drops.

AH is next patch?

Can you hardcore freaks be every happy? Your posts here and in the patch notes section are the same obnoxious memes and 1 liners.

I hope the game feels bad enough that you are gone for good.

I'm very happy that the OP and Valmar-type guys got boned by the latest patch. The game still need a lot of rework but there might be a hope. Hope that the game will be enjoyable by more than few elitist masochists that like to torture themselves day and nights.

You are no better than me son, stop acting hard. You walk the path of vengeance and hate if you are true to this post, and that is even worse as you do not fight for what you love but apparently what you hate. That's why i chose to believe you are not true to this post.

"

iamstryker wrote:

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Many forum goers read to misunderstand,

Just like you purposely did in the looting thread. Crazy how people can't take their own advice.

Interesting choice of words, check the bold. :)

Just what I said, purposely misunderstand. You don't attempt to try to understand someone elses opinion and instead just sling mud.

"

iamstryker wrote:

Just what I said, purposely misunderstand. You don't attempt to try to understand someone elses opinion and instead just sling mud.

Techically, in order to purposely misunderstand i would have to understand it in the first place but chose to be on the other side of it.

EDIT: Not saying i understand all here, or all in the thread, just saying that i liked your choice of words so all can see who is the master. :D

Bump dont let this game go down the drain cause of people that want things handed to them with no effort on their part