So, its time to get rid of Damage Reflect mod on maps

to give some perspective to this incredibly whinny thread.

My build relys heavily in hp regen. Should ggg remove "players cannot regenerate life" mod from maps so i can play more relaxed? How about critical damage on mobs, thats a RNG mechanic with almost no defense against. Or how about invoke monsters from beyond? you are killing things nicely and then BOOM, Abaxoth rapes you on the spot.

THe point is: all the reasoning behind this thread can be applied to all map mods, so, any argument in favor of it, goes against the core aspect of the game: "sometimes gets really difficult and its up to you to adapt and compensate"

My point here is - most of the builds in this game have its own defences(pros) and unmanageable mods on maps (cons). It can be no leech, low\no regen, -max res etc. Reflect is one of them.

But while every bad mod is not deadly, I mean, as rf you can react that you don't regen enough and log out\portal out. You are able to survive fighting no-leech mobs when your main def mechanic is leech. Yes, you might re-roll map, but if you somehow didn't and had no clue about it, you have a chance to survive.

However, reflect works as almost a 100% punishment. If you are not a potato dps elemental build, hitting even a small pack of mobs will 1-shot you. There is no chance.

You can say "Then build up around reflect mitigation". Well, this mechanic is meant to be re-rolled if you are eledps build. Thus saying, you will never meet any problems if you don't f*** up. And you can't play around it. You don't build a character around unexpected deaths like 5 sec afk on map, dc, or whatever reason can suddenly happen.

Yes, I'm against "clean cutting" this mod off. There are no debates that we should have punishing mods for specific builds archetypes, but I strongly believe that they should not instantly erase your character with no, even extremely low chance to be rescued.

There are pleanty of mods that make the map impossible or very annoying to play for various builds. The idea is tu either adapt to those mods or reroll them. The purpose is quite simple: currency sink. Costs 1 chaos ro reroll or 1scour+1alch.

You are pointing out reflect because it's the one that just killed you or made you salty for some reason. There are however others that go agaist the meta builds:

- No regen - NO NO for RF

- Temp chains - annoying for everyone except JUGGS

- Even enfeeble can be nasty combined with DMG reduction and stuff like mobs life in T16's

Reflect is fine. Just reroll over it.

i agree with threadstarter
If you go slayer you get immunity for free
if not, get fuc*d
reflect has always been unfun in the arpg genre. think of iron maiden curse in diablo2, devs finally patched it out.
but this game is so much more hardcore and oldschool and stuff i know so we never get rid of it i guess xD

I open this post not to cry or because I am salty, no, I open this post just to express my opinion and debate with other players.

My thoughts until now make me even clearer about the reflection, we already have 4 pages and the first suggestion of those who are against this topic is: Reroll / sell.

It's funny ins't, "try" or "do it cautious" , no, no, actually, everyone here knows that reflection is just to reflect immune builds, that's why I can't agree with mod state or argument like "you should not do all in this game ".

For me it is fallacy, if present in the game, however difficult it may be, it must be possible to complete, but clearly reflect is "all or nothing" for most people.

So, softening the mod and encouraging people to play, instead of being seen as a mere "currency sink," would not that be much better?

I'm not radical to suggest removing Reflect from the game, on the contrary, I'm very in favor of seeing it more common in Rare / Nemesis or boss mechanic (with a clear and visible indicative), would be more fun than just ignore / reroll / sell, like most players do.

Reflect is no different to any of the more niche map mods and has just as many dividing lines, way too many people here think if your not immune you can't run reflect maps its simply not true you just have to have enough defences to balance out the damage.

I can't do phys reflect on my groundslam zerker, instant death, block glad? No problem as long as i slow down a bit.

removing it just removes flavour from the classes that directly handle it and for what? So that the builds that can't don't have to spend 1c rerolling it? How is that a positive for the game

"

Santiagofera wrote:

It's funny ins't, "try" or "do it cautious" , no, no, actually, everyone here knows that reflection is just to reflect immune builds, that's why I can't agree with mod state or argument like "you should not do all in this game ".

nobody suggest that, because unless you are a real retard, thats a given, like, you know... EVERY MAP MOD.

Once again. All builds have an anoying waekness built in their mechanics. I invested many skill points and gems to be able to stun reliably, to get fucked by a single mod that nobody cares about. Wich is why i don't rely ONLY on stuns.

The same applies to reflect. Get rekt? Git Gud.

"

Santiagofera wrote:

I open this post not to cry or because I am salty, no, I open this post just to express my opinion and debate with other players.

My thoughts until now make me even clearer about the reflection, we already have 4 pages and the first suggestion of those who are against this topic is: Reroll / sell.

It's funny ins't, "try" or "do it cautious" , no, no, actually, everyone here knows that reflection is just to reflect immune builds, that's why I can't agree with mod state or argument like "you should not do all in this game ".

For me it is fallacy, if present in the game, however difficult it may be, it must be possible to complete, but clearly reflect is "all or nothing" for most people.

So, softening the mod and encouraging people to play, instead of being seen as a mere "currency sink," would not that be much better?

I'm not radical to suggest removing Reflect from the game, on the contrary, I'm very in favor of seeing it more common in Rare / Nemesis or boss mechanic (with a clear and visible indicative), would be more fun than just ignore / reroll / sell, like most players do.

So what you are saying is that they should also remove no regen maps because you can't regen yout life as RF? Or you can't cast spells without mana?

You are saying they should remove + crit to mobs maps because they can one shot prople?

I get your point but it's based on a premise that is simply false.

Your premise:

"People should be able to run all maps"

That is false. No one ever in GGG said that should be the case.

Because you base your point of a false premise your poit is moot.

You should not be able to do all maps with all builds just as you can't clear Uber Elder with all builds.

You need to build for it and sacrifice usually damage.

You can go slayer and full phys: can run all ref maps NP. Same with Elementalist with full elemental conversion. You will be weaker because you sacrifice a DPS ascendancy for it BUT you will be able to run all maps.

On the other hand you can run whetever you like and have to skip or reroll a map from time to time.

Even if the only purpose was curency sink it's still worth to be in the game.

the only real thing while mapping, that is trully punishing without anything remotely rewarding in return, is the Nullifier nemesis mod. That shit gives no warning, and there is no way to counter it except pure luck of killing the damn thing before it touches you. Everything else is fair play.

It's not fun, but that's why you have to adapt. The game is already dumbed-down enough as it is. With Betrayal, we finally have it a bit more difficult which I am honestly happy for. People just always complain and can't adapt to the situation it seems.

I know it can be frustrating as I have died from it before because I forgot to read the mods, but you just adapt and move on with it. There's a lot of ways to get around it like many people have posted in this thread.

I think people are just lazy man. :|