can we please stop the power creep, already? (or better - reverse it)

Who would want to see less content and get less done per time invested?
Who would be interested in skills and items that are not as good or better than the ones we already have?
Why would someone play PoE in 2018 if its too fast and not an older game, thats supposedly so much better?
I too played arpgs since diablo 1 and i am very happy with how this game is right now. I dont see how being slow and needing even more time would make an "action"-rpg any better. PoE provides complexity, action and thus fun to me .. coupled with a ton of salt ofcourse.
And as others already said before: If you dont enjoy the game, dont play it. Dont play the league, dont pick up that item, dont compare yourself to others if there isnt enough positive appeal to it.
We also DO have way harder content than some years back, reverting skill/item numbers without reverting all of those monster stats aswell would be madness. Member when a 5 digit dps number was alot? You can barely kill map bosses post yellow maps with that now.

who? me.

the flipside of your reductio ad absurdum is that the current game is essentially click to win and one minor step removed from being a slot machine.

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grepman wrote:

remember the whine after they attempted to change frenzy/power charges a year ago or so ? that was just dumb ass charges that barely qualify as damage reductions. if you take away half the 'coverage' most of the playerbase will quit. if you take away a lot of damage a lot of players will quit because they cant one-shot a screen of rares+magic+trash anymore.

I remember the whine after then nerfed ES, and after they removed almost all "Instant leech" mechanics. It was far greater, than from mere changing insignificant charges...
Personally, i completely agree with "Instant leech" removal, and agree that ES deserved some nerfs (though GGG's nerfs to ES were a bit "overkill" for me).

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grepman wrote:

poe fanbase right now is filled with players who honestly and sincelrely believe arpgs are all about fast speed and killing anything non-boss in one shot. I bet they have played 2.5 arpgs in their life and none of them were non-modern arpg or not d2

Hmm, maybe they should actually try to play some other ARPGs first? I have the list here - Diablo2, Titan Quest, Sacred2, Torchlight2, Grim Dawn...
All of them allow creating of kinda powerful character, that stomps his enemies. But none allows for as ridiculously fast clearspeed as we see in PoE (at least, VS endgame content). Even though balance in most of them is VERY far from good. And they arent really "hardcore" for me. Wanna really "hardcore" ARPG? Try "Blade & Sword 2" (chinese game, btw)! I bet you'll cry when every trash mob will fight like kung-fu master (i mean skill, not mere HP/damage) on highest difficulties. Defeating a pack of monsters with AoE? Forget it! Pull them one by one to stand any chances! And the game also has mechanics, that encourages slowing clearspeed and dealing with enemies one by one - if you "overkill" an enemy with calculated combo (aka "brutality" from Mortal Kombat), it drops additional loot based on how strong your "brutality" was. And that additional loot is far greater than normal one!

And those 5 ARPGs i listed are best among their genre. I wont advice crap like "Dawn of Magic" or "Loki", though there is no "massive clearspeed" either.

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grepman wrote:

I wish theyd stop saying dumb shit about the genre and were forced to play arpgs that came out before like 2010 not named D2.

itd be immensely satisfying watching them play sacred 2 or something and get tortured by their ADD when they engage in combat. shiit, Id pay for this to happen. make them play old arpgs for 1k hours and see how they beg to go back to the gogogo PoE of today and I bet they will swear to not mention ARPG in a blanket statement again. ever. this would be glorious.

I know, PoE's playstyle in endgame more resembles an arcade than ARPG. For me, in ARPG your character fights enemies, and they fight back. If gameplay is so enemies dont have chances to fight back at all, it's extremely boring for me...

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robmafia wrote:

who? me.

the flipside of your reductio ad absurdum is that the current game is essentially click to win and one minor step removed from being a slot machine.

Completely agreed.
The main goal of the game is to make players enjoy it as long as possible. If player completes it too quickly, it meant he wont be satisfied, and game developer wont receive funds from microtransactions either. It's a "lose-lose" scenario that no one wants.

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HerrImHimmel wrote:

Who would want to see less content and get less done per time invested?

This is a strawman. Of course, GGG could just decide to make us kill 1/10 of the mobs we kill today, but in return increase the chance to get good stuff by factor 10. They could make this game as slow as they liked and still give us the same reward per hour spend. The only difference is that instead of running 2k maps, we would just have to do 200.

This would require a lot of re-balancing of the core mechanics: life/ES, life regeneration, leech etc. But it would be possible. Heck, you could let players do the re-balancing using private/sandbox leagues.

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UlfgardLeo wrote:

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HerrImHimmel wrote:

Who would want to see less content and get less done per time invested?

This is a strawman. Of course, GGG could just decide to make us kill 1/10 of the mobs we kill today, but in return increase the chance to get good stuff by factor 10. They could make this game as slow as they liked and still give us the same reward per hour spend. The only difference is that instead of running 2k maps, we would just have to do 200.

This would require a lot of re-balancing of the core mechanics: life/ES, life regeneration, leech etc. But it would be possible. Heck, you could let players do the re-balancing using private/sandbox leagues.

At 1/10th the speed .. wouldnt those 200 maps take as much time as 2000 do now?

Also its hardly a strawman. If you want to nerf/stop the power creep, as stated, you need to nerf skills and items and thus the characters. That would result in overall slower progression and more hostility towards players with less experience and/or time. Youd need more investment to get the damage, defense and mechanics you want and need for certain encounters.
If however you want to slow down the killing, but keep everything else the same (in relation to eachother), thats another thing imo.
So in the end you just want less monster kills and less areas/bosses to clear, but keep all else (leveling, loot) the same?
Also whats this all about .. "they should actually try to play other arpgs first"? Not every arpg has to be a clone of d2 and sacred and what not. Some can be faster. Is this another one of those "If you have not listened to Metallica - Master of Puppets you dont know what good heavy metal is! I know the truth" argument?

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HerrImHimmel wrote:

Also whats this all about .. "they should actually try to play other arpgs first"? Not every arpg has to be a clone of d2 and sacred and what not. Some can be faster. Is this another one of those "If you have not listened to Metallica - Master of Puppets you dont know what good heavy metal is! I know the truth" argument?

Sure, game can be faster, but "being fast" causes a lot of problems, that werent solved yet:
1. Player reaction time. Sorry, but this one cant be scaled. So when game allows and forces players to move/act fast beyond reaction time, it becames mindless. Player simply clicks again and again, without thinking about what's really happening there. Cause he cant think fast enough to be in line with game's speed. That's why MOST ARPGs have strong limitation to character's movement speed.
2. PC/GPU stress. Yes, GPU is stressed by rapid movement too, cause it's forced to draw new objects more often. Usually, designers of "fast games" keep a VERY close eye on their product's performance (i mean, FPS), because it doesnt matter how good player is, if he's "crippled" by 1-digit FPS. We all know, how far PoE is from those standarts.
3. No "convienience" tools like loot auto-pickup, AH, etc. Yes, if game is slow, manual pick-up isnt an issue, but if it's fast, players want EVERYTHING to be fast. They want no just fast map clearing, they also want fast (= automatic) currency/item pickup, big inventory, fast trading system (=AH), and so on. Only with all that, "speed-hungry" players will be truly satisfied.

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HerrImHimmel wrote:

So in the end you just want less monster kills and less areas/bosses to clear, but keep all else (leveling, loot) the same?

define same.

do you mean that we want the same amount of loot but with 1/10 as many kills? if so, no.

there is no clear speed reduction. in fact they are buffing it already:

https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/9y9yb8/a_controlled_burn_is_sometimes_necessary_for_new/

in case you wondered what flask to use. now you can use one flask that does it all. one button, one strategy, easy win

ive tried to play this game today.. it is sooo boring when you realise that 'this character uses meta stuff and is auto win' and 'this character is a melee 2h non crit' so it is pure garbage

you - as a player - have no impact. if you pick wrong archetype - you are a looser. if you pick poets pen you literally CANNOT fu.. that

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