can we please stop the power creep, already? (or better - reverse it)

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Grauthrim wrote:

Can't stop the snowball now. Increase it, give us harder content :P

I dont think we need harder content.

What we need is less movespeed, less cast speed, less attack speed, less aoe, less projectiless.

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HoockBr wrote:

I dont think we need harder content.

What we need is less movespeed, less cast speed, less attack speed, less aoe, less projectiless.

"

The_Human_Tornado wrote:

But it is still not a one way road. Every major update gave thougher, harder hitting and more annoying mob sets like those corpse exploder ants in 2.0 or Kitava mobs in 3.0.

that is a different question. the problem, is that OLD content becomes obsolete. it doesnt have to be. the new tough content, isnt made as hard fast enough or constitutes average content, fast enough. in the end, you have majority of game content that is TRIVIAL due to insane dps numbers.

the top super endgame content is maybe 2% of total game. and the average game content falls somewhere in the beginning of red maps. and its remarkably trivial to dps your way through red maps with almost any skill any ascendancy and not feel a thing.

"

Back then 20k dps with Cleave was enough to rule the endgame, nowadays you have to hit with 400k dps for 5-10 seconds to down a shaped underground sea merveil.

boss hp is the only thing that grew, it happened (wait for it) like a year ago.

this is a problem, again- even if we ignore old content becoming obsolete content doesnt grow 'equally' in both directions.

and even worse, the trash mobs numbers OBVIOUSLY dont grow 'in both directions'. trash in t15 maps is the same trash- it gets one shot. trash in high tier should deal the same damage in maps as it is in delve 300+ levels and be as tanky as in alluring abyss and then some

"

If you would play with the same dps numbers that made players get 100 back then you would struggle in act 9 already.

I dont know about 'struggle'. people 'struggled' in solaris too. people 'struggled' in maps. people invested in defenses.

you would (wait for it) clear slower, move slower and fight slower because the game would be more dangerous than you just one shotting shit.

"

They also added annoying shit to slow down players like blight, vine snares, maim and that black elder tar stuff.

lol stahp. desync change alone more than covers that shit. the fact that you can run TC maps with a curse immune flask without effect of TC, alone covers that shit.

"

Overall, things got faster and cheaper but that isnt as much drama as you guys act like.

how does that goalpost feel when you're moving it ? is it heavy ? do tell us how ST was doing millions of dps, that a normal atziri trio took 20+ seconds. and btw trio hp hasnt changed since then

"

3 years ago every shitstain was running around with 15k ES, everyone was able to do the most difficult content in the game back then, uber atziri, only needing a fucking tabula thanks to blade fall poison mines and tricurse with increased curse effect and the bosses had only reduced curse effect, not less, guess how easy that was?

so...youre proving my point that the average content became easier as new tools were introduced...aka the definition of power creep ? cool.

"

Or farming a sixlinked ilvl 80 Astral Plate in Merciless level 2 crypt or tier 1 map crypt in 5 hours thanks to Celestial Justicar.

again, proving my point ? ok.

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The game has seen much worse times balancewise than now so I really dont understand the drama here.

maybe you shouldve been around when many people, myself included, were talking about power creep killing the game ? power creep isnt new, sure. power creep has been rampant since basically talisman and poison and culminated in ascendancies.

I do actually agree with you that right now probably isnt the WORST it's been (double dip and vaal pact times was arguably worse), but I dont get the logic of justifying your position with that. it is awful logic.

hey global warming isnt as bad as it was last year so its cool. no its not.

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HoockBr wrote:

"

Grauthrim wrote:

Can't stop the snowball now. Increase it, give us harder content :P

I dont think we need harder content.

What we need is less movespeed, less cast speed, less attack speed, less aoe, less projectiless.

We already have "less AoE" with AoE nerf in past. There is no need to nerf it further.

Or, you meant an ability to hit multiple enemies at once? Well, it could be balanced, if damage of skills with high ability to hit multiple target was adjusted accordingly. When a skill, that can hit 20 enemies at once, deals half DPS compared to skill that hits 1 enemy, and content is littered with enemy hordes, it's obvious which skill is better... And even worse, some setups actually deal more damage to individual enemy, the more enemies get hit (for example, "corpse Xplosion" with Impulsa). That's just ridiculous!

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Or, you meant an ability to hit multiple enemies at once? Well, it could be balanced, if damage of skills with high ability to hit multiple target was adjusted accordingly. When a skill, that can hit 20 enemies at once, deals half DPS compared to skill that hits 1 enemy, and content is littered with enemy hordes, it's obvious which skill is better... And even worse, some setups actually deal more damage to individual enemy, the more enemies get hit (for example, "corpse Xplosion" with Impulsa). That's just ridiculous!

U cant fix big aoe skills to not make huge damage just because the game has too much flat added damage sources everywhere.

U can get a shit weapon and kill shapper, just run lots of abyssal jewels.

the AOE..

herald + inpulsa + prolif is beyond ridiculous


guys, dont expect any changes. balancing a game is difficult when you want it and impossible when you dont care.

btw - check ItsYoji's video on 'what kills players in POE'. it is already two years old

TWO YEARS AGO the most dangerous thing in the game was the post-death effect. TWO YEARS. for two years 99% of the content is IRRELEVANT. you could replace most mobs (and i mean that) with immobile balls that die on sight. functionally there would be NO CHANGE

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HoockBr wrote:

U cant fix big aoe skills to not make huge damage just because the game has too much flat added damage sources everywhere.

AND?
Every skill that uses weapon has "Weapon damage multiplier" on it. It scales flat damage too, you know.
And every "spell" skill has similar "added damage multiplier", that scales all flat added spell damage.
Every support gem, that adds ability to hit additional targets, also has "damage multiplier" on it.

So, please, tell me, why all those multipliers cant be used to reduce damage of skills that hit many enemies, and/or increase damage for ones that hit only few?

so someone killed shaper already in kripps league - a ssf, no stash, white items only+unique drops (ie, no rare or magic items) and no flask refill custom league

I think this league only been running for like not even a week, right ?


I wonder where would this person be in 2013 poe with similar settings ? I dont think theyd get past early 70s maps even because they wouldnt be able to traverse a map pyramid or roll maps with pack size/maze

a player in 2014 wouldnt ever beat atizri because they wouldnt find a midnight.


does anyone else see how IDIOTIC it is to deny the power creep and how even more idiotic it is to advocate arbitrary handicaps when you have to create super strong ones that arent present in regular leagues, to barely stop the power creep ?

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

HoockBr wrote:

U cant fix big aoe skills to not make huge damage just because the game has too much flat added damage sources everywhere.

AND?
Every skill that uses weapon has "Weapon damage multiplier" on it. It scales flat damage too, you know.
And every "spell" skill has similar "added damage multiplier", that scales all flat added spell damage.
Every support gem, that adds ability to hit additional targets, also has "damage multiplier" on it.

So, please, tell me, why all those multipliers cant be used to reduce damage of skills that hit many enemies, and/or increase damage for ones that hit only few?

MK, we all know why GGG wont be doing this.

because once you give toys to kids (and poe's majority fanbase is basically kindergarten level because all they understand is 'I WANT MOAR') you can't take them away because the whine would be insane.

remember the whine after they attempted to change frenzy/power charges a year ago or so ? that was just dumb ass charges that barely qualify as damage reductions. if you take away half the 'coverage' most of the playerbase will quit. if you take away a lot of damage a lot of players will quit because they cant one-shot a screen of rares+magic+trash anymore.

poe fanbase right now is filled with players who honestly and sincelrely believe arpgs are all about fast speed and killing anything non-boss in one shot. I bet they have played 2.5 arpgs in their life and none of them were non-modern arpg or not d2

I wish theyd stop saying dumb shit about the genre and were forced to play arpgs that came out before like 2010 not named D2.

itd be immensely satisfying watching them play sacred 2 or something and get tortured by their ADD when they engage in combat. shiit, Id pay for this to happen. make them play old arpgs for 1k hours and see how they beg to go back to the gogogo PoE of today and I bet they will swear to not mention ARPG in a blanket statement again. ever. this would be glorious.

"

grepman wrote:

Spoiler

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

HoockBr wrote:

U cant fix big aoe skills to not make huge damage just because the game has too much flat added damage sources everywhere.

AND?
Every skill that uses weapon has "Weapon damage multiplier" on it. It scales flat damage too, you know.
And every "spell" skill has similar "added damage multiplier", that scales all flat added spell damage.
Every support gem, that adds ability to hit additional targets, also has "damage multiplier" on it.

So, please, tell me, why all those multipliers cant be used to reduce damage of skills that hit many enemies, and/or increase damage for ones that hit only few?

MK, we all know why GGG wont be doing this.

because once you give toys to kids (and poe's majority fanbase is basically kindergarten level because all they understand is 'I WANT MOAR') you can't take them away because the whine would be insane.

remember the whine after they attempted to change frenzy/power charges a year ago or so ? that was just dumb ass charges that barely qualify as damage reductions. if you take away half the 'coverage' most of the playerbase will quit. if you take away a lot of damage a lot of players will quit because they cant one-shot a screen of rares+magic+trash anymore.

poe fanbase right now is filled with players who honestly and sincelrely believe arpgs are all about fast speed and killing anything non-boss in one shot. I bet they have played 2.5 arpgs in their life and none of them were non-modern arpg or not d2

I wish theyd stop saying dumb shit about the genre and were forced to play arpgs that came out before like 2010 not named D2.

itd be immensely satisfying watching them play sacred 2 or something and get tortured by their ADD when they engage in combat. shiit, Id pay for this to happen. make them play old arpgs for 1k hours and see how they beg to go back to the gogogo PoE of today and I bet they will swear to not mention ARPG in a blanket statement again. ever. this would be glorious.

#MeToo

To each and every word.

Now, there could be a middle ground, but TencentGGG forgot that certain rules do exist so "purpose" is obvious even to monkeys, regarding a skill usage in ARPG, and not "arcade shooters" - making a modern day Contra from PoE old ARPG roots does feel asinine, no matter how you look at it...

Making damage scale unrestricted, and granting "unlimited" reach + "unlimited" damage as a "de facto" incentive was asinine from the start, unfortunately. There was a good reason why support gems that altered a skills reach were tagged with a "less" multiplier, just like a powerful unique had that "disadvantage" that you had to built around. Those days are long gone...

Now, if 3.5 doesn't present a "nerf" to offscreening via projectiles, as AoE did get reduced already, and a "cap" to the damage dealt by on death effects from the likes of Impulsa & Co, the direction will be clear - it's "Go! Go! Go!" from the get go or GTFO... And PoE was a nice ARPG post the increase in drop rates for uniques, way before power creep got handed like candy for no good reason...

But hey, we almost got to 200K Reddit subscribers, we got the same retention problems, and "moar new @#%&" is the only main facus on TencentGGG's mind... "Things are looking good!" /s