farming sulphate is aids

Yeah the suplhite farming kinda sucks. Wish it was buyable from niko for other currency that way u wouldn't have to constantly interrupt ur delves.

Just have the loot at the end of each segment drop some sulphite.. this will at least prolonge the delvs a bit.

Yeah, it's unlikely they will remove sulphite because there's a challenge tied to it but I suppose they could give crawler infinite capacity. It's just qol, if you don't feel like delving, there's no pressure and that's one thing that felt a bit bad about incursion. And it would make more sense than the current system, Nico is keeping the stuff in the crawler and the deposits seem perfectly stable in normal conditions.

They could use the existing upgrade tiers for something like 'improved steampunk controller - x% faster movement and starting/stopping in response to player actions'

Yeah, half of these issues, at least, could've been solved if the crawler simply had infinite capacity, and you could trade sulphite between players.

Then this would make Delve similar to, say, Uber Lab, which GGG -also- had advertised as an "alternative to mapping." In fairness, Labyrinth definitely does live up to its claim, even if some of its mechanics are widely-hated. (the traps got more tolerable once I learned my flasking mechanics a bit better so as to trivialize them)

But, Lab offers its own rewards that aren't overpowered, but have their own appeal, AND it is possible to sustain it, thanks to the fact that you can just have a stash tab full of Offerings and buy more if you need them.

If GGG was -really- keen on preventing just sustaining Delves permanently, they could even just separate a "crawler capacity" with a "reserve," and if your crawler ran through its capacity, you'd get some sort of IRL cooldown before you could delve again. Either way, it'd still be worlds better than the current system.

Though truth be told, such a "nerf" wouldn't be necessary: challenge leagues have ALWAYS been about granting players too much loot. (it's why prices are so cheap compared to Standard: it's not that Standard that's broken, it's leagues are with constant loot fountains) And if/when the mechanic makes it to Standard, a lower rate of finding Sulphite would gate it: if Delves truly WERE much richer than anything else, than sulphite prices would rise as everyone tried just buying up sulphite and avoiding all other content, and globally, the ratio of Delves vs. Maps would still remain fixed.

I dont even think they should remove it regardless. I think its important to tie delve to the rest of the game, to somewhat limit ur delving, and to give a sense of value to the access to the delve. It builds a sense of ok I want to do this, but I have to do a little something to earn that and in return that makes it feel rewarding.

But its just way too much atm, its so restrictive. Its supposed to be an infinite dungeon, a way to push your character to its limits... Most people will never manage that, they will not get the endless experience, the challenge experience, because they will be driven insane by sulphate farming and never be able to reach down that far. It cant function as an alternative form of endgame because it requires way too much time spent in the existing forms of endgame.

You want the sulphate to break it up and to give the content a sense of value, to stop that feeling of taking it for granted, but it needs to be much more of a token gesture. Right now its a demoralising, intensive, heavily restrictive burdon that is killing the content.

Im sitting around monster level 74 in delves, I dont feel like I can go further. the cost of delving, the amount of delve time ill get vs how long it takes to gather the sulphate, for me its stay here or quit the league. I was close to quitting the league day 3 tbh, and if this isnt changed Ill probably be walking away from this game all together because we have a dev team who are just convinced they have to stop players playing content they want to play.

I want to delve, if I map on occasion I want to only play the 50% of maps I enjoy. Why are GGG so against letting me do this? Why are they convinced they have to make me do a ton of stuff I dont want to do in order to have those experiences?

I want to scream, its so retarded I want to grab them by the collar and literally shake some sense into them. The level of stupidity and short sightedness here is unfathomable, it feels like my head is going to explode attempting to comprehend how absurd they are being with their content. What is wrong with these people?



holy fuck.

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ACGIFT wrote:

Yeah, half of these issues, at least, could've been solved if the crawler simply had infinite capacity, and you could trade sulphite between players.

please no trading, please for the love of god do not gate access to this endgame content behind trading. Enough trading already, I hate trading, we need to be able to PLAY this content regardless of being able to sit there selling gear all day and finding players wanting to sell their access to the content.

If they make this content trade accessed Im fucking done with this game, seriously.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

please no trading, please for the love of god do not gate access to this endgame content behind trading.

Well, look at my example with Uber Lab. Did you really need to trade to make some runs of that? I mean, I managed to get 500/500 chests in Incursion league without having to trade for any of my offerings; I got low, but still had some to spare, and that was 83 runs.

the access is balanced around an ability to trade the access. I want to play delve as much as possible, if you can trade it then the acceptable level will be balanced around trading for it like it is with atziri, with council, with uber lab, with all this heavily restricted access content.


trading for access to endgame content is horrendous. I want to be able to retreat to standard for months and play the game, for myself, by myself. Telling me well you can trade to play this content, but if you dont want to trade you can still spend 100s of hours farming for access because its balanced around people who want to chain it trading then Im done, Im absolutely done. Enough wasting my time, forcing me to do some shitty chore for 100s and 100s of hours of my life in order to be allowed to just play endgame content.

fuck that shit, its a degenerate, cancerous concept.

it's not really rocket science as to why delve is gated - because if you make it have no cost to traverse, then everyone would do delve over maps- poe players take path of least resistance most of the time, after all. delving makes it far easier to get items and the progression is much faster than progressing an atlas

predictably, there arent many builds that are great for mapping but suck in delves or vice versa.

which brings me to the final point- whether or not content should be gated is certainly a debatable point- if one thinks it isn't, they're most likely too stubborn (or alternatively, blind) to look at the other side.

I certainly think content should be gated, especially in todays state of game, where balance (the lack of it) runs rampant. and the whole 'my progress should only be gated by my power' is, imo, a somewhat naive simplification that doesn't really work in poe, especially today's poe.

gated content based on RNG at least levels the field a bit. there would be many questions why a build A is 10000 times more efficient and better at same content and thus progressing 10000 faster given equal gear and time investment.

when an intersection is blocked and only some minister/president can pass, vs turnstile where minister/president is forced to pass just like anyone else - I like the second choice.

yes, at the end he/she is still a president and you're not - but access to street is objectively equal in that instance. obviously with trade/partying it all kinda falls apart anyway, but RNG is unbiased and thus works well with unbalanced level of power.

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grepman wrote:

it's not really rocket science as to why delve is gated - because if you make it have no cost to traverse, then everyone would do delve over maps- poe players take path of least resistance most of the time, after all. delving makes it far easier to get items and the progression is much faster than progressing an atlas

By that logic, no one's doing mapping anyway, as the Uber Lab is FAR more lucrative. And beyond getting your 6 trials, it has no real barrier for entry: 4c per offering, and you can make a build to breeze it for not much more expensive than a single offering.

And do not forget: every single league's mechanic has basically rained loot down from the sky for players. Being more lucrative than plain mapping is just the norm. If players didn't care about easy wealth through new mechanics, they'd be playing Standard, after all.

And to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, the problem here isn't actually that players are "spoiled brats that want easy loot" (even though every past league in a while has given them that easier than Delve) but that Delve promised CHALLENGE for those bored with one-shot-phasing through Uber Elder.

So it's not the LOOT being gated that's an issue. It's the GAMEPLAY being gated: you have players with tweaked-out builds decked in GG equips who are still stuck facing level 50 mobs in delves. It's just plain not fun.