farming sulphate is aids

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WithLoveEarL wrote:

The reason why you need to farm Azurite ...

The thread is about sulphite, aka the gating resource A. Azurite and the need to upgrade vs darkness is fine with me. I'm also ok with Delve progression being character bound and don't really need the changes promised in today's post by GGG.

But this league promised to bring endless difficulty - what it brought in the current state is endless running low on fuel. Endless facerolling of easy content, so that you can move 100 meters in the mine.

I upgraded my fuel capacity to 900 units, which requires about 40 mins of mapping (I fully clear maps, not just run through). This 900 units then give me less than 10 minutes of mine content, at mine level 125 (T6 mob level entry point).

As you go down and the fuel consumption severely increases, you 'll get less and less mine content out of the same capacity. Which coupled by the fact that every vein gives you around 50 sulphite (map quantity doesnt seem to have much influence), makes for a very boring league.

Delve in the current state is "endless difficulty" like rationing fuel at a gas station in Venezuela is "endless difficulty". I want to be killed by delve mobs, not by boredom.

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morbo wrote:

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WithLoveEarL wrote:

The reason why you need to farm Azurite ...

The thread is about sulphite, aka the gating resource A. Azurite and the need to upgrade vs darkness is fine with me. I'm also ok with Delve progression being character bound and don't really need the changes promised in today's post by GGG.

But this league promised to bring endless difficulty - what it brought in the current state is endless running low on fuel. Endless facerolling of easy content, so that you can move 100 meters in the mine.

I upgraded my fuel capacity to 900 units, which requires about 40 mins of mapping (I fully clear maps, not just run through). This 900 units then give me less than 10 minutes of mine content, at mine level 125 (T6 mob level entry point).

As you go down and the fuel consumption severely increases, you 'll get less and less mine content out of the same capacity. Which coupled by the fact that every vein gives you around 50 sulphite (map quantity doesnt seem to have much influence), makes for a very boring league.

Delve in the current state is "endless difficulty" like rationing fuel at a gas station in Venezuela is "endless difficulty". I want to be killed by delve mobs, not by boredom.

I havent delved as deep yet but I can already start to feel the pinch you’re describing. Hopefully they drastically increase sulphite capacity and drops soon. I would love it if an hour of mapping led to an hour of delving. Right now it seems to be a 7 or 8 to 1 ratio of map minutes to delve minutes. Maybe even worse, those are armchair figures. Anyway, I hope that’s not what they intended.

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WithLoveEarL wrote:

I am very glad you need to upgrade stuff and I'm glad the weak minds are getting weeded out.

We could argue that the gaming industry (and probably the consumer society in general) pretty much lives on weak minds, just saying which part doesn't compute.

If we try comparing this league to, say, breach, incursion, bestiary and talisman, as leagues that had a certain number of middle steps before you can do the real league content we can probably notice the pattern.

- Opening up a breach gives you fuel for entering domains but the encounter itself is potentially pretty massive and can have interesting results.

- Entering an incursion gives you fuel for entering the temple but can have interesting results and requires player decision making.

- Sacrificing talismans gives you fuel for fighting Rigwald but the results could be potentially more valuable (at the time) than the encounter.

- Capturing beasts is a fuel for beastcrafting, capturing a beast doesn't give you anything interesting by itself.

- Collecting sulphite is just opening an area and clicking on a deposit.

All of those have a varying amount of engagement to go with the tedium, I don't think it's hard to see which are which and which ones the players liked more.

guys..

they cannot make delving 'self sufficient'. that would be called 'canibalisation of content'.

maps system is what gives POE its longevity and it is one of its strongest selling points. if you make it secondary to endless dungeon.. it is a very very risky decision

GGG please remove sulphite. Give me more options to play the game not more restrictions. The gameplay feels choppy, you have to switch from one to the other for a crappy reason: either you don't have enough sulphite to delve or you have too much and you can't gather anymore and you have to delve.

Removing the sulphate cap should solve the whole problem. One still have to farm it but can decide when to spend it not being forced by the game. Freedom of choice how to play the game is back and the grind can flow like before.

Btw if you feel that darkness is killing you too easy because of negative radius and resistance then you are pushing it too much. Nobody would say such a thing about elemental resistances uncapped. Darkness requires a new layer of defense. That is how GGG wants us to deal with Delve.

However it is arguable if it was a good design decision to add that additional layer of defense to hinder progress into depth. I think that GGG is aware that top-gear would break Delve with ease if there is no other wall to stop broken builds. Delve shows clearly how broken game ballance is.

I think that the idea behind Delve is great but like Beastiary GGG didn't spend enough time to finish it. GGG just pushed it out on release day no mater the state of maturity it has. This a big mistake if you want to have player retention. Nobody likes to play unfinished ideas, but the idea is burned.

The massive patching and weekend activity is a certain sign that GGG failed the deadline but are dedicated to fix that. To be honest, bugs that can be identified and fixed within hours shouldn't pass testing. That is just poor QA.
It is time that GGG thinks about how to make realistic decisions on deadline/release management. IMHO they have a very low maturity in this and every great idea is in danger to fail due to this.

And please let GGG hire an expert team for UI design. Every new feature added to UI feels like a botton nailed to your forhead while your arms are tied to your back. What ever you do, you still have to push it...

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Ok delve is great, theres a lot of issues and Ill make a proper post about those...

but right now just want to make 1 point. Im running zones like blood aqua and ossury to get sulphate, over and over and over...

why am I doing this? Why is it important I waste so much time just running through these zones trying to get enough sulphate to delve for like 5 mins and then I have to go back and do it again?

Ive upped my capacity to 170, I have a 1224 bill for my next light radius upgrade which I need cause I can barely see anything at all, the light doesnt even fill a corridor and I have to literally be touching the line to not die, Im at -56% darkness resist, that needs upgraded. If I up my sulphate capacity then Ill need to spend even longer running these shit fking zones over and over to get sulphate every time I run out.

Why? Why are you making me do this? Im actually close to just quitting this league and this game. My time means more to me than doing this stupid earning my right to play the game by wasting my fucking time, why are you wasting so much of my time?



Give us access to content, fuck this limited access bullshit you always come with. Explain to me why its so important that I run around some shit zones I dont want to be in so I can play the new enedgame content? Wtf is this shit?

So done with this game, seriously.

Uh don't run around shit zones then? Its not like you can't get the stuff in maps, the same maps that the majority of the player base claims is the only good part of the game.

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sidtherat wrote:

guys..

they cannot make delving 'self sufficient'. that would be called 'canibalisation of content'.

maps system is what gives POE its longevity and it is one of its strongest selling points. if you make it secondary to endless dungeon.. it is a very very risky decision

it shouldnt be self sufficient, it means more if you have to farm some of the sulphate, but right now its ridiculous and just promotes endless nonsense farming, its making people do idiotic, tedious, meaningless busy work. It has to change.

Ultimately though, if the map system cannot compete with delving then it shouldnt be artificially propped up. It should sink or swim on its own merits. Ive played this game for over 12k hours sid, probably longer than you or anyone else in this thread has, Ive donated over $1k to this game. Im sick of mapping, I have every right and reason to be sick of it and theres no reason to stop me spending my time playing alternate forms of endgame if thats what I want to do. 5 years of mapping mate with no real alternative, this game wasnt made yesterday. If theyre going to give us alternative forms of endgame then let us play them, when Ive spent 3000 hours down this mine Ill come back to mapping of my own accord.

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WithLoveEarL wrote:

Then go to All Programs and uninstall the game you whiny little goddamn piglet. Every single time there's something that these silver plate kids are crying and begging about.

You have no idea who you are talking to, so Ill forgive how misjudged this comment is, but understand you are so far off the mark its absurd.

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Telzen wrote:

Uh don't run around shit zones then? Its not like you can't get the stuff in maps, the same maps that the majority of the player base claims is the only good part of the game.

trust me I dont need a lesson in what maps are. If I dont play another map this side of 2020 I wont be losing any sleep over it, lets put it that way.

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WithLoveEarL wrote:

- Opening up a breach gives you fuel for entering domains but the encounter itself is potentially pretty massive and can have interesting results.

- Entering an incursion gives you fuel for entering the temple but can have interesting results and requires player decision making.

- Sacrificing talismans gives you fuel for fighting Rigwald but the results could be potentially more valuable (at the time) than the encounter.

- Capturing beasts is a fuel for beastcrafting, capturing a beast doesn't give you anything interesting by itself.

- Collecting sulphite is just opening an area and clicking on a deposit.

All of those have a varying amount of engagement to go with the tedium, I don't think it's hard to see which are which and which ones the players liked more.

+10

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Synopse wrote:

However it is arguable if it was a good design decision to add that additional layer of defense to hinder progress into depth. I think that GGG is aware that top-gear would break Delve with ease if there is no other wall to stop broken builds. Delve shows clearly how broken game ballance is.

+1, absolutely agree here. I've not spent a single moment in the darkness without exactly those thoughts on my mind. Why do I have to deal with this BS, just because the game has 5 broken builds? Why is the rest of the game OK for those broken builds?

You know that you can outleech any damage, so we'll make you unable to leech at all? Woah, I'm impressed by the creativity here.

Also +1 for removing the cap. Disliked the cap the moment I saw it (2 minutes into the league). Right now I'm in constant loading screens due to hopping back and forth between maps and delves. In particular, while leveling the NPC teleport let me enter the delve, and I could get right back in the area I was in before that.

But no no, maps have limited portals, and we must adhere to this mechanic. So have some hideout loading screens thrown in the middle, just to increase the enjoyment factor.

I notice the too many loading screens even with the game on SSD. Trainwreck design, fully regret supporter pack.

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Synopse wrote:

Removing the sulphate cap should solve the whole problem. One still have to farm it but can decide when to spend it not being forced by the game. Freedom of choice how to play the game is back and the grind can flow like before.

I think the issue is the ratio of how long ur sulphate lasts for how long you have to spend farming it tbh. Just let us play the content, I want to play the new alternative to mapping, I dont want to spend most of my time mapping. Preferably I dont want to spend any time mapping if I can help it but I think its important that theres some effort, that you have to go mine the sulphate, I think it adds something to the content.

Something free is worth what you paid for it right? Theres a feeling of value added by having to invest a little something to take part in it, I think it should be more of a token time investment though, thats all it needs. It doesnt need me to feel like Im wasting hours upon hours just to get a ticket to play.

If I want to map Ill map. Mapping is better xp per hour, better currency per hour, theres no reason to heavily gate my delving and push me into spending most of my time mapping. Were not talking about running uber atziri where theres huge rewards over normal mapping, this is mass spam endgame content, let me spam it. Mapping can earn its own keep, if mapping is good enough to make me want to spend serious time doing it then Ill do it, thats on mapping to live up to, I dont need to be strongarmed into 100s of hours of mapping after 5 years of playing maps just because I want to play the alternative to maps.