POE is not a FREE TO PLAY

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

It's a completely worthless thread. POE is a free to play game, and there is no argument against that. You don't pay to download it and the leagues aren't DLC. If that's not the topic of the thread it should be deleted until OP makes a more appropriate title, and if it is the topic then it's worthless because it's completely and objectively false.

While I think it would be hilarious (not to mention ridiculous) if someone from GGG were to lock this thread with the reason "Wrong title. Is actually F2P.", you can't be seriously expecting that to happen.

They're probably waiting for it to die on its own, so they can get a bit of rest before another one just like it pops up. And you're not helping that happen.

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

It's a completely worthless thread. POE is a free to play game, and there is no argument against that.

With the exception of this entire thread, you mean. And others like it. And everyone who disagrees with you.

Yes, if you qualify it like that, then you can say "there is no argument" against you.

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You don't pay to download it and the leagues aren't DLC. If that's not the topic of the thread it should be deleted until OP makes a more appropriate title, and if it is the topic then it's worthless because it's completely and objectively false.

You just described almost every game demo in existence, including the popular "crippled" model of demo in which the entire game is accessible to players from the start, but you must pay to fully unlock the features and play the game as it is intended.

Demos are free to play, sure. That's the entire point of them. Publishers don't typically label them F2P games, however.

In short, no (reasonable) person can argue with an assertion that what is available for download costs no money and is therefore "free." But that's just a red herring, because what people are actually objecting to is GGG's representation of what it is offering for download.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

It's a completely worthless thread. POE is a free to play game, and there is no argument against that.

With the exception of this entire thread, you mean. And others like it. And everyone who disagrees with you.

Yes, if you qualify it like that, then you can say "there is no argument" against you.

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You don't pay to download it and the leagues aren't DLC. If that's not the topic of the thread it should be deleted until OP makes a more appropriate title, and if it is the topic then it's worthless because it's completely and objectively false.

You just described almost every game demo in existence, including the popular "crippled" model of demo in which the entire game is accessible to players from the start, but you must pay to fully unlock the features and play the game as it is intended.

Demos are free to play, sure. That's the entire point of them. Publishers don't typically label them F2P games, however.

In short, no (reasonable) person can argue with an assertion that what is available for download costs no money and is therefore "free." But that's just a red herring, because what people are actually objecting to is GGG's representation of what it is offering for download.

The argument that it is not free to play seems really weak, maybe non-existent. It seems plainly free to play to me. The rub is the claim it is not pay to win. I would say that pay to win in an arpg context means that paying to finish the content. For example, if act 10 was locked until you paid or maps were unavailable until a fee was paid. The other example of pay to win would be paying for direct power. Paying real money for a legacy Koams Heart or some really good gear item or something. Those would clearly be pay to win examples.

The bottom line is that GGG made the game and makes the rules for their game and what the advertising blurbs mean. They get to define the two phrases pay to play and pay to win for their game and how they advertise it. I think that their definitions are within reason. Some apparently disagree, especially with the pay to win definition, at least that's my understanding.

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Turtledove wrote:

The argument that it is not free to play seems really weak, maybe non-existent. It seems plainly free to play to me. The rub is the claim it is not pay to win. I would say that pay to win in an arpg context means that paying to finish the content. For example, if act 10 was locked until you paid or maps were unavailable until a fee was paid.

You literally just described the other most common version of a demo:

You can play part of the game for free, and if you want to play the rest, cough up the money for the complete game.

That is not pay2win according to any widely accepted definition of that word. It is pay2play.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

The argument that it is not free to play seems really weak, maybe non-existent. It seems plainly free to play to me. The rub is the claim it is not pay to win. I would say that pay to win in an arpg context means that paying to finish the content. For example, if act 10 was locked until you paid or maps were unavailable until a fee was paid.

You literally just described the other most common version of a demo:

You can play part of the game for free, and if you want to play the rest, cough up the money for the complete game.

That is not pay2win according to any widely accepted definition of that word. It is pay2play.

What do people have to pay? PoE doesn't have a demo. When you downloaded it the first time you got the whole game? I've heard that less than 10% of players ever trade. So I don't think the trade argument works, plus it is possible to trade without premium tabs. I did it for years.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

You just described almost every game demo in existence, including the popular "crippled" model of demo in which the entire game is accessible to players from the start, but you must pay to fully unlock the features and play the game as it is intended.

Demos are free to play, sure. That's the entire point of them. Publishers don't typically label them F2P games, however.

Have you ever actually played a game demo? They are typically very short, sometimes only a single level or track (out of dozens in the full game). The Diablo III demo allows you to play the first third of the first act in the game and advance to level 13. An actual demo of Path of Exile would have similar restrictions, perhaps allowing the player to complete act 1 and advance to level 15.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

In short, no (reasonable) person can argue with an assertion that what is available for download costs no money and is therefore "free." But that's just a red herring, because what people are actually objecting to is GGG's representation of what it is offering for download.

No, Path of Exile is perfectly within the definition of free-to-play used in the industry. It's one of the fairest games using the free-to-play model even. You are just trying to put it under a different label because for whatever reason you are unhappy about stash tabs being sold.

Heck, many MMORPGs offer a free-to-play mode where you have complete and unrestricted access to the base game but must buy any expansions. Depending on the game expansion access may also require a recurring subscription, and you may or may not be able to drop back to free-to-play.

I seriously think this is just a whine thread.
At the end, it is everyone's free choice if they want to p(l)ay or not.
How many players are involved in PoE? Tens, hundreds of thousands?
And how many are contributing to the forum? Hundreds at best?

I seriously hope GGG won't change anything here.

Nobody forces you to play it if you don't enjoy it.

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Pajdovo wrote:

I seriously hope GGG won't change anything here.

This sums up the reason I tend to get into arguments in these types of threads.

It's one thing to consider selling stash tabs ethical, which I disagree with. Or say "it's GGG's game, they can sell whatever they want", which I agree with.

But it's another to actively defend this practice, which I simply don't understand.

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Pajdovo wrote:

I seriously think this is just a whine thread.

It is. And I should not respond to it. But then there's people like that demo guy, and...

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NemoJr wrote:

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Pajdovo wrote:

I seriously hope GGG won't change anything here.

This sums up the reason I tend to get into arguments in these types of threads.

It's one thing to consider selling stash tabs ethical, which I disagree with. Or say "it's GGG's game, they can sell whatever they want", which I agree with.

But it's another to actively defend this practice, which I simply don't understand.

If you REALLY want to understand why so many of us don't see an ethical dilemma with stash tabs --- play d2 with the expansion. When you've leveled multiple characters to end game and struggled with having less than one stash tab's worth of storage, then you'd understand.

But you're not going to make that effort and just keep repeating the same lack of understanding.


This thread only keeps popping up because the OP keeps bumping it up every time it drops off the front page.