Nonsupporters of GGG and "3.0/Harbinger Sucks"

Everything since Breach was garbage. That's about it.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Harbinger might as well not exist. I got a few orbs. Made some items I sold for alts. Haven't found a need to use the mapping orbs. No uniques yet.

It's a wash for me.

Doesn't mean I think "it sucks". It's kind of refreshing to have a league like this after the loot fiestas we have had of late.

kinda this

its just really really dull

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muzein wrote:

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DreadLordAvatar wrote:

Harbinger League is aka Fall of Oriath.

New content, new acts, etc, Harbinger is just icing.

Congratulations GGG, greatest ARPG of all time.

No, it's not. Harbinger league is completely separate from Fall of Oriath. It's its own thing. You can't lump Harbinger into FoO's new features and say it's good.

Its good. DAMN GOOD.

Well i for one dont display my supporter titles. I play the new league for the fresh start thing, the gimmick is just an extra "oh thats neat"

Yeah Harbinger is kinda meh, i dont mind it though, ive seen worse from what i can remember.

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UglyStru wrote:

I've seen countless posts here from people bashing GGG so hard for a mediocre expansion, poor balance, bad artwork, don't know how to spend their money, etc. etc. etc.

But these same people are the ones who have never even bought a supporter pack. Why are you going to bash the developers of a game you've played 100% for free? You're practically just taking a product that a company had paid good money for, not financially supporting them at all, and then crying because you didn't like something they changed about the product.

GGG didn't even have to release a Harbinger league/supporter packs. They could've just released 3.0 alone and said "have fun while we work on the next league". You're getting a free damn expansion. Yet people are still complaining!

Not all feedback is complaining, bashing, or otherwise nonconstructive. Honest feedback, both positive and negative helps GGG direct the nature of upcoming content, address player frustrations, and can only serve provide a better game for everyone. Thinking that all negative feedback is complaining or comes from a sense of entitlement is more a problem with your own thinking.

Undoubtedly some nonconstructive feedback has come from supporters, so it's hardly reasonable to pin it all on non-supporters.

All constructive feedback is important, including that which comes from non-supporters.

I should also point out that not all support is of a direct financial nature. Arguably some of the best support for GGG doesn't cost the supporters a dime. Charan's forum presence and personality was quite probably far more valuable than the sum of his financial contributions over the game's beta periods. Numerous streamers, whether they have supported financially or not, continue to provide significant non-financial support. There are several strong forum personalities that persist as well as numerous community members who create helpful resources. This manner of support draws in more (or retains) people who then go on to support financially, but it doesn't take this level of activity to do so.

Those who have spent (tens of) thousands of dollars cannot reasonably claim entitlement to complain or otherwise provide nonconstructive feedback based on their contribution. Money buys us no more than what we explicitly purchased. So if I'm not entitled to complain, what does another player's lack of financial support have to do with their entitlement to complain?

Constructive feedback on the quality of the Harbinger packs or league (or any constructive feedback in general, for that matter) isn't an attack on GGG or specific developers. It's opinions on released content that are given in the hopes of shaping future or fixing current content. People generally give opinions because they care and want to see improvements.

However critical some constructive feedback may seem, it's given with the presumption that GGG can objectively incorporate or reject often conflicting ideas that are presented. There's a respect in a developer's strength of mind. GGG has and will continue to make improvements based on feedback. GGG has and will continue to reject ideas because people often don't know what they want or the consequences of what's being asked for, or because GGG wants to take the game in their own direction, or for whatever other reason.

Sugar coating or withholding what you truly think is unhelpful and presumes that the recipient is weak minded, which I would think is pretty insulting. Iterating on ideas is difficult if people dance around them with an inability to speak plainly. Reinforcing the notion that everybody's a winner can inhibit a desire to improve through hard work.

I do feel bad for those developers directly attacked with suggestions that they should be fired or otherwise reprimanded. Especially when it seems pretty clear that a very great deal of available hours went into the considerable (and very awesome) 3.0 assets. They're not incompetent but time definitely takes its toll and they have demonstrated time and again that they can produce much better assets. I've been in their shoes. Negative feedback is especially hard because they care, love what they do, and work damned hard but it presents potential bases for improvement. It's when we're most uncomfortable that we have the greatest chance to grow.

I wish that people would stop buying support packs that they find disappointing just to support GGG. Yes, I think GGG has earned ongoing financial support for a number of things. But financial support through purchasing unsatisfactory products very strongly reinforces the creation of even more unsatisfactory products. This is ultimately bad for both GGG and the increasingly unsatisfied players. I would rather that people earmark the value they would have given and put it towards a future, perhaps larger, supporter pack where they feel GGG has produced a quality product. Or just directly buy points, which can be upgraded later within a major expansion.

I am disappointed in the quality of the Harbinger supporter packs and would have liked the stargate portal in the top tier pack. I think they had very limited time given attention to 3.0 and were rushed in part because players demand them now and they've historically been released with the league. I think there's some things for GGG to learn from the community's reaction (and not necessarily the things I think), but these packs are nevertheless not going to bring about the end of PoE or GGG. Plus, some people really do like them.

I am extremely impressed with PoE 3.0 and I very much like the Harbinger challenge league. I hope the harbingers become a core component in PoE along with the fancy new orbs and shards. The currency tab could definitely use a redesign to accommodate them better. I happen to find the alt shards very useful because in SSF HC I'm almost always out of alts and they're much smaller than returning to town frequently with id'd items.

tl;dr: Stuff and such. There may have been a squirrel. Things, of a nature.

For the time/state of the game, Harbinger league is probably the worst league to date, especially for SSF. It might because we are spoiled because of legacy/mayhem but a normal PoE league usually last me and my friends 3 to 5 weeks. This league we stopped playing after a week. Came back to try again but it's meh. So will move off to another game until the next league. Legacy felt how an ARPG should be. To go from that to this is probably where most of the disappoint comes from. It simply isn't that fun.

That being said PoE is the best game I have ever played and still will be in three months and whatever that league is good or bad I will be playing it. No other game ever made that gives so much value for so little. I try to contribute as much as I can to say thanks and do my part. GGG can't knock a home run out of the park every league even if we wish they could.

It's mostly a crafting league with some unique items and a unique map.
A bit more interactive than Essence league but maybe people were more impressed with the over-the-top rare enemies that Essences could bring?

Maybe some people reacted poorly to the fragmented theme that Harbinger seems to have and would've been happier if the orb drops were rarer, but dropped as full orbs instead of fragments?

Maybe GGG should've doubled down on the fragmented theme and had the Harbingers themselves be broken up?
Find the floating silhouette of a Harbinger npc in an area, activate it and it would float directly to the next silhouette in that area, making for a more powerful Harbinger with better drops the more Harbinger silhouettes merged when the last Harbinger is activated in that area?

Add a sextant mod for "maps contain X additional Harbingers" and modify the Beachhead map to open the arena door only when the last Harbinger silhouette is activated and you're done!

...actually, that would've been pretty neat.
People would share the huge Harbingers that they'd have formed like in Essence league when someone ends up with a 7-essence enemy.

The problem is that people got spoiled quite a bit by Legacy league. You need to understand that that league was special and not what is intended generally for leagues: it was a cerebration league meant to have that loot explosion. For me it was even to much and I stopped playing it. Didn't even get my challenges. Simply not my cup of tea the whole loot fiesta. I like my drops to mean something.

I do agree that harbinger is a bland compared to other leagues like Breach (loved it), Prophecy (enjoyed the mechanic a lot) and my favorite Perandus (Brodiro gave me a 6L Shavs).

I do understand that this League came along with a huge game update for core mechanics and game flow. You cannot judge it standalone - no one should.

Put yourselves in the shoes of anew player to the game. They will have an insanely good experience now and that was the point of the expansion as well.

Old players that know the game made the mistake of rushing trough the new content as they do every league and play the game only for the league mechanics and challenges. They are hit now with a sore disappointment.

To summarize my view on the matter:

- This release was about 3.0 and the game restructuring and general improvement. Some still need touching up as I hear lots of ppl have performance issues. Not myself however.

- Cannot compare Harbinger to Legacy. The latter was intended to be over the top.

- Harbinger is underwhelming compared to Breach for instance BUT take it with a grain of salt as it came out with 3.0

- Not all leagues will be a huge success or everyone's cup of tea. You can never please everyone. Take a break from the game. Come back next league.

- Boneflesh -

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Durentis wrote:

...But financial support through purchasing unsatisfactory products very strongly reinforces the creation of even more unsatisfactory products...

This is why I find the original poster's logic completely backwards. We're not allowed to be critical of something unless we have paid for it?

It is the exact opposite: it is so unsatisfactory we were not willing to pay for it...

In my opinion any complaints coming from someone who did buy supporter packs are mostly safe to ignore. How bad could it be? We got paid anyways!

This post suggests each harbinger pack drops around half a chaos orb's worth of currency:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6unnzo/data_from_100_harbingers_post_buff_301/

The mobs give some exp but does not seem to be much and I can't really imagine spending 15 seconds for half a chorb is worthwhile.