I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

"

Crackmonster wrote:

If you look at op i've made suggestions based other posters like you to increase drop rates in 74 maps and down a good deal.

Yeah, as I said, we pretty much seem to agree. And I think most people who argue against you, actually agree as well. The thread's title and content contradict each other a bit. Title say map drops are fine but content says they should ease the process to building a mid level pool (not fine after all?). All they (we?) want is to map "stress free" in a mid level map pool with occasional dips to higher level maps. The hardship to do that is the source of whining imo. That whine is completely justified.

There's a small but vocal group of people who want maps to drop like candy (aka the "I shouldn't be limited by RNG" -group when actually it's not RNG when we have ways to modify the "RNG" for our favour over longer periods of time). Unfortunately the highest level maps will never be easy to sustain and they shouldn't be. That's not how PoE works because we need heavy currency sinks at higher levels, we really do. But that's a discussion for another thread.

TL;DR you're right in OP, especially with suggestions gathered from the thread but it comes off a bit like "shut up noobs" -thread. I'm out! :P

Okay i've had enough long posts for this session.. now i am reduced to:

"Don't underestimate the difficulty of rolling maps right."

@Grughal

TBH it was a bit of a shut up nubs as well, but still a right one. Too much crying was going on.

Anyways... I champion for the people but i have my own weird ways to do it, they don't always understand me but my aim is the goal so i don't really care if they like me or not, even though i am just helping them(and myself as i am just another of them).

"

Grughal wrote:

All they (we?) want is to map "stress free" in a mid level map pool with occasional dips to higher level maps. The hardship to do that is the source of whining imo. That whine is completely justified.

This is something I agree on.

In your opinion, does the "whining" come from a difference in your expectation, and what the game is delivering?

What do you define as "mid-level"? What is your expectation? Have your expectations changed with the changes GGG implemented in 2.0?

In 1.3, 77+ was my expectation. It was so "easy", I was combining 74 maps to make 75, because I had so many. I could easily build currency pools and map pools. It was trivial to start a new league, and get to this position.

In 2.0, 75 is my base map pool. In a session, I usually get to run a couple of 77+ maps, before returning back to 75. Sometimes, I am lucky and get a 79 map. I view getting 79+ as an achievement. On rare occasions (less than 5 times!), I've gone beyond that. This is over 300 map runs. I estimate that it costs me 2-3 chaos orbs to maintain this level. With optimisations and a bit of trading, I could probably break even. I am no longer building a high level map pool, or a currency pool. This is my new expectation.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Anyways... I champion for the people but i have my own weird ways to do it, they don't always understand me but my aim is the goal so i don't really care if they like me or not, even though i am just helping them(and myself as i am just another of them).

I've been following this thread since the start, and its one of the better discussions on maps out there.

"

Grughal wrote:

Anyway, I'm done with this. The mapping experience is a bit off and I honestly expect GGG to adjust it later on. As Chris said himself, it's easier to start with giving too little and then adjust it than the other way around.

I'm pretty sure they will relax it a bit as the league moves on. Remember corrupted zones and Atziri fragments? They made changes and got easier to acquire as the league moved on.

Well there is a huge difference between standard and temp league due to currency. In temp league, I don't think everyone can throw tons of chaos to roll maps, I did level up from 95 to 96 today, and I used more than half of my chaos to roll 77, 78 maps, and my map pool is still in danger level which only have five 78 left. Now I have to farm chaos or site there doing trade or to rmt in order to push further.
Don't even need to mention the new map system is extremely punishing solo players.

"

WATCH_ME_QWER wrote:

Well there is a huge difference between standard and temp league due to currency. In temp league, I don't think everyone can throw tons of chaos to roll maps, I did level up from 95 to 96 today, and I used more than half of my chaos to roll 77, 78 maps, and my map pool is still in danger level which only have five 78 left. Now I have to farm chaos or site there doing trade or to rmt in order to push further.

Standard or temp: eventually you will get into a position where currency in = currency out? Having a large currency pool helps you get to that point faster, and smooth out any rng blips, but will not help sustain above a certain threshold. 77/78 is definitely not sustainable solo.

I'm reminded of this quote from Lyralei's thread:

"

Lyralei wrote:

[N.B: If, at any point, you run out of currency to roll maps, conserve your 73 maps and run lower pools as compromising will only be detrimental to your progress.]

"

WATCH_ME_QWER wrote:

Don't even need to mention the new map system is extremely punishing solo players.

Yep - as solo you have to carry the full impact of bad rng streaks. Another quote:

"

Lyralei wrote:

Realise that there will be streaks of bad luck where your maps yield no returns and you must learn to accept this.

Doesn't make it any easier!

Used some more chaos, like 15 so now i'm about 60 chaos, and some vaal orbs.. also scoured i think 3 of them. Didn't stick to all rules posted here, you really have to consider each roll, affix paired with tileset and all. Saved 4 chisels from existing quality.. Maybe more, lets just say 4.

Average: 3.75 chisel, 3.75 chaos, 0.8 vaal, 0.2 scour = roughly 0.17 ex each to roll on standard, one ex per 5.94 maps.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Used some more chaos, like 15 so now i'm about 60 chaos, and some vaal orbs.. also scoured i think 3 of them. Didn't stick to all rules posted here, you really have to consider each roll, affix paired with tileset and all. Saved 4 chisels from existing quality.. Maybe more, lets just say 4.

Average: 3.75 chisel, 3.75 chaos, 0.8 vaal, 0.2 scour = roughly 0.17 ex each to roll on standard, one ex per 5.94 maps.

Hopefully you'll get some decent drops. Let us know what you get!

"

Crackmonster wrote:

There has been a lot of crying from unlucky people, and/or people that don't know how to roll maps. I've been farming a decent amount in 2.0 and i have never had the issues they claim.

People that don't know how to roll maps... What about people that knew how to roll maps in 1.3 but now have a hard time sustaining 75 and 76 maps? That's been my experience. I Alch everything, chisel 77s and above, and I just cannot seem to sustain a pool of 75 and 76 maps, while in 1.3 I comfortably sustained a pool of 76.

If the idea is that people should now invest more currency into their mapping in order to sustain 76 maps, screw that. Seriously. It was already expensive enough in 1.3. I get that you should have to make quite an investment to get 79+ maps, but come on. Making it harder to get high mid level maps is just a waste of my time when I want to focus on high level characters. More gating behind wealth and rng. What fun.

"

I Believe end map balance is right and that you can run 76, 77 and 78 maps most of the time, but to get it rolling you really need a map pool - to help players get that and to protect them from rng fluctuations i got some suggestions plus some general suggestions gathered from this thread.

So in other words, map balance is not right.

I've gone all-in with my 78s+. Prob. the worst map run I've had so far, lol:



_IN = 0x77, 8x78, 1x79
OUT = 6x77, 1x78, 1x79

Pretty disgusting. Note how the possibly worst rolled map (one before last, unlucky vaal) is the only one that dropped a +0 and a +1. Everything else is -1 at best. Pay around 1.5exa in orbs, to get your 78s pool cleaned :)

I can twat in 76 - 77, yep, with big orb investment, but getting higher is all a matter of dice roll. Need to stack more good RNG, build your char around lucky streaks and pick all the RNGesus notables on the tree ;-)

PS:
That Village Ruin map is such junk for a 79... small place that spawns almost nothing. We are still in beta, boys.

Over 200 maps in on my 77+ mapping. As you can see, I've been dumping some serious currency on my map rolls.

All those maps, unless otherwise noted, are new maps, not legacy. I've not bought any maps.



Rolling maps the way I've been doing appears to put you right around 77 sustainable, with a good streak of RNG having potential to build your 77 pool a bit and a bad RNG streak having potential to eat up your 77s and send you back to 76.

I think that a lot of people cannot sustain the type of expense I've been throwing into my maps, and I think these results show that the expense really isn't worth it.

Map drops need a buff. I have a serious problem with the idea that you can invest as much in running maps as I've been doing and yet you remain limited to mid tier maps most of the time.