I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

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morinius wrote:

If you're not doing 76 maps it should not be because you haven't seen a 76 map drop in a month, it should be because your character is weak and stuff kills you. Then it gives you a goal - find a way to improve yourself and you will get there. Currently the goal is - farm more and faceroll everything until you get a luck streak and move up a map tier.

Good post. It's definitely important for us to remember this is about motivation and drive to play. Having tough content available drives me to improve my characters in order to tackle it. Without that motivation, I can only reroll so many times without just feeling bored and lost - and many players won't bother rerolling at all once they realize their main toon can't make progress due to droprates rather than difficulty.

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demon9675 wrote:

"

morinius wrote:

If you're not doing 76 maps it should not be because you haven't seen a 76 map drop in a month, it should be because your character is weak and stuff kills you. Then it gives you a goal - find a way to improve yourself and you will get there. Currently the goal is - farm more and faceroll everything until you get a luck streak and move up a map tier.

Good post. It's definitely important for us to remember this is about motivation and drive to play. Having tough content available drives me to improve my characters in order to tackle it. Without that motivation, I can only reroll so many times without just feeling bored and lost - and many players won't bother rerolling at all once they realize their main toon can't make progress due to droprates rather than difficulty.

+1

+1

"

There has been a lot of crying from unlucky people, and/or people that don't know how to roll maps. I've been farming a decent amount in 2.0 and i have never had the issues they claim.

"Knowing how to roll maps". Rofl. Dude, u r playing standard, in standard lot of us have 5+ tabs of 77-78s. Ppl r "crying" in new leagues, u r analyzing standard ...




If I start doing 75s till I run out ... that will be 1 year of playing. In new leagues, where u start from nothing, where u dont have 500/100 culler in party, 75 maps r gold and thats point where ppl stop playing. Without crying ... they just leave game. Maps r now +2 and drops r nerfed. After patch, point was round 76-77, so now its -1.



Whats ur build? Its easy to run 80+ quantity in standard where u have finished builds. Would like to see u in warbands, called "standard" with 5 link where mobs hits "harder" and lag (that is "fixed") kills 1-2 player from full party. Dont get me wrong, Im doing same as mf in standard, fill party and start 100 quantity maps. As result, I get same level, +1 level and a lot -5 levels. In warbands from 75-77 blue mode, if u dont wonna die I get -5 levels only. Most bosses are skip or die, so there is no +2 maps because -10% hurts a lot. I dont think u understand problem when I look ur topic. None care bout standard and u merged 2 different problems.

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demon9675 wrote:

"

morinius wrote:

If you're not doing 76 maps it should not be because you haven't seen a 76 map drop in a month, it should be because your character is weak and stuff kills you. Then it gives you a goal - find a way to improve yourself and you will get there. Currently the goal is - farm more and faceroll everything until you get a luck streak and move up a map tier.

Good post. It's definitely important for us to remember this is about motivation and drive to play. Having tough content available drives me to improve my characters in order to tackle it. Without that motivation, I can only reroll so many times without just feeling bored and lost - and many players won't bother rerolling at all once they realize their main toon can't make progress due to droprates rather than difficulty.

+1

+1

+2

Ok, a great day for me, did 4 120+ 79 map without a single 74+ map drop is great. Then I told myself it's ok, just go back to do 78s, I did 5 78s and guess what no 74+ again. Now I am planning to do 77s which I only get less than 1% exp per map, I think I will finally go back to 76s, as a lv95 char this is pure pain.

It's fine. If you knew how to roll your maps, you would not have a problem.

Seriously though, still rather small number statistics. But GGG should look at ways of making mapping more deterministic. Not totally un-random, but not this badly randomly punishing the shit out of everyone. Maybe give the boss a guaranteed drop in the -2 to +2 range, even with more likelihood on the low end of that range.

level 87 warbands, first 75 ever dropped tonight

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Char1983 wrote:

Seriously though, still rather small number statistics. But GGG should look at ways of making mapping more deterministic. Not totally un-random, but not this badly randomly punishing the shit out of everyone. Maybe give the boss a guaranteed drop in the -2 to +2 range, even with more likelihood on the low end of that range.

"More deterministic" is not a good thing. What people really care about is average rates of return.

For example, the recent change to rare monsters, having them not drop +2 maps anymore... that's more deterministic. Before they had a random range, now they have a smaller random range, so it's less random. But being less random doesn't make it good. It's less rewarding, so no one is going to defend it.

Meanwhile, your suggestion for bosses with the -2 to +2 range, what you like about it actually isn't that it's less deterministic. What you like about it is that it's more rewarding. The whole "deterministic" thing is double-talk to distract your audience from what your suggestion truly is: a pure droprate buff.

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As I've said before, I cannot think of a single more important change to make to mapping than this: change the vendor formula so 2 maps of the same base vendor to a new base of +1 level. This change alone would make it so low map drops wouldn't feel unrewarding anymore, but instead as a min-max opportunity. You'd collect lower maps, vendor them up, and run the vendored maps at a more appropriate level. It would be more deterministic, but deterministic the right way: not by altering drop tables, but by allowing players to properly manage their stashes in a more optimized manner. Droprates and monsters should embrace RNG, not shy from it; it is player actions which should bring order to the chaos.

And yes, my suggestion is a sustainment buff. But unlike pretty much every other suggestion, it works by changing player psychology and reactions to random drops, rather than dictating the drops themselves.

OK, to be more clear: I would like maps to be both more deterministic AND I would like a droprate buff.

I actually made a suggestion a while back to make the system a LOT more deterministic:


https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1357895


The problem is:

- Low droprates in general make the system feel unrewarding at the moment
- Highly randomized map drops make things feel unrewarding because you do that hard map and get nothing at all


The second problem could be circumvented with giving the boss a 100% chance to drop a map.

50% -2
25% -1
15% 0
5% +1
5% +2


That would not even be that much of a buff (though it would be a significant buff), but would for example guarantee you that if you are playing a 79 and are able to kill the boss, you can be sure to be able to play at least a 77 afterwards. It would also make killing the boss feel a LOT more rewarding.


I still think that "more deterministic" is a good thing for map drops.

If you do not find any good item for a week or two, that sucks, but doesnt really matter, because you can keep playing.

If you dont find any decent maps for 2 days and drop from 77s and 78s to 74s that really sucks and is a lot more discouraging.

Rares can't drop +2 anymore, ok, rares are super-easy to kill, so I can understand that form a gameplay pov.

But how about any unique monster, other than the map boss - exiles, beyond bosses, warbands - not dropping any maps at all in 2.0? Woudn't that make sense, from a gaming pov - possibly hard encounters giving you possible map drops, and not no drops at all?

How does completely disabling map drops from unique monsters make any sense (from the gamimg pov, not from economy currecy sink whatever pov)? Beyond bosses can be one of the hardest content you'll encounter in this game, yet I avoid spawning them in higher maps, cause I know I cant expect any map drops from them...