I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long
" This is a fair assertion. We're all in this leaky boat together, people.
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" honestly the way I see it, right now at the moment it is a good way to slow the progression of high level characters and control the economy wich are good things. GGG have the statistics from their game and will make a fair study about how it worked and if the results are good enough. So maybe, after the league we will see an ajustement in the map drop. But my suggestion if GGG have to modify drops rate in any futur they should not say it in the patch note. Players tend to overreact very quickly and loose their mind. | |
" you know man, every single time someone uses the "but this would break the system/economy/<other>" argument, to justify some ridiculous anti-fun, RNG-content-gating mechanic - it makes me cringe. I'm not one who can chain 76+ maps currently, for non-RNG reasons. I just get one-shot. especially if some Act 4 monsters spawn. before The Awakening, I made my home in 74-77 range maps and similar-area Zana missions, with my two main chars on Standard. even the other chars got an occasional map run there. now I'll probably need 2x the HP, not rely on leech so much, and not being Evasion because it got obliterated. but we aren't talking about me, here. we are talking about people who have level 90+ characters, can take that 76+ map, roll utterly insane "rip mods" on it, and actually clear it and kill the boss. RNG makes sure, they have nothing to expect regardless of the fact they just had a near-death experience (especially true for Tempest/HC). it always did. the decision of "player gets +1/2 map / -10 map / no map at all" always seemed completely fkn random. but at least before The Awakening, you maybe got an in-map visit from Zana who gave you a +1 map with a chance of being Unique, or a sweet little Cartographer's Box that made your eyes shine. now it doesn't seem to be the case, and quite frankly I think that's an utter dick move by GGG. it's like giving a baby some sweet candy, then immediately taking it away. now add in the fact 76-77 maps are no longer top tier but more like middle-tier - with barely enough EXP to even scratch the surface of a 90+ char's little finger - and the combination is the completely justified source of all rage. it's anti-fun, pure and simple. there's no reason for this. none. well actually there is a reason: GGG will bring back some of the fun eventually. they'll make a dramatic patch note out of it, and the fanboys of the first page in that thread will scream with joy, as if it's the next best things since sliced bread, as opposed to something that should have fkn been the default all along. and was. in 1.3. Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
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" Haha this is absolutely true! I've only been playing a little more than a year, but I've never seen the feedback forum flooded with so many threads on one issue. So, seriously, someone better be paying attention. If they have a truly compelling reason why things MUST be as they are, GGG needs to explain themselves. I am highly skeptical that such a reason exists, however - the status quo is just a way of creating artificial difficulty and time-sinks. We're all in this leaky boat together, people. Last edited by demon9675 on Aug 5, 2015, 1:40:17 AM
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"There are actually several distinct issues here: 1. How much, and which, currency is used (with nonsustainment as the obvious stick if not used) 2. What gameplay effects (outside of map sustainment) currency use has on maps 3. What maps are like even without currency use Of these three areas, references to the economy only pertain to the first. How "rippy" maps are is a totally separate subject. The currency sink aspect of maps, "pre-run," is a separate chapter from the actual run itself. Incidentally, the first topic is also, of the three, the one where I agree with GGG the most. I understand the need for the currency sink but I hate the map affix pool in general, because it tends to add uninteresting mods which "the good builds" are all basically designed to treat as if they don't exist, placing the rolling focus almost entirely on quantity instead of gameplay. At least, if you're supposed to shrug off affixes as if they're nothing, make them more interesting. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" Hey, i can just show it here, its easier because i can link maps. There is probably a lot much better at rolling maps somewhere out there, but I tried to come up with some sort of value system here, but in reality i go more with my feeling instead of strict requirements. I also don't care about temporal and ice unless it is a problem on the boss. Maps i don't do are combinations that creates a oneshotting hard-to avoid boss, or other very risky situations. Not many would like a double dominus, -max with extra projectiles, monster speed/temporal or something similar. Many builds wouldn't be fan of fracture with a map such as orchard where the birds explode for high dmg, and also each fracture. Sometimes you can decide to reroll something nasty, but try to keep it down as much as possibly by knowing the content and when you are at high risk of death. The single most important thing is packsize. It would have to be a really insane map without packsize, not to get it. Always go for pack size. Magic monsters is good also, but not as good as packsize. Never run your 77+ maps unless you can afford to roll them right. You must have 50-100 chaos orbs or the currency to buy them at all times, in case you should encounter a cartographer in a high map. Alterations, alchemy, vaal orbs, chisels, and scours, you must have plenty of those at all times, or you will end up rolling them less than ideally. You can use some different tactics depending on map level. I use these classes to explain, worst to best: Bad(reroll) Decent Good Very Good Super Good Ultra Good ----------- Below 75 Alch, and only reroll if really bad. Lockboxes: Give them a few alt till something interesting pops up. Never run less than rare arcanists. Roll cartos a little then Corrupt. 75 Maps I don't really care too much. I get some decent rolls but since i have tons of 75 in surplus its not worth wasting too much rolling those maps. If you are building map pools and facing bad luck, you may have to expend some more currency here to get better rolls. Corrupt all except very good+ rolls. Lockboxes: try to get 3 magic packs or some other good mod like quant/monster + 2 sockets, etc. 76 Maps Only Good+ rolls. Corrupt all except Very Good+ rolls. Lockboxes: try to get 3 magic packs or some other good mod like fully linked, unique etc pops up. 77 Maps Chisel, Only Good+ rolls. Corrupt all except super Good+ rolls. Lockboxes: 3 magic packs, except arcanist and carto. 78 Maps Chisel, Only Very Good+ rolls. Corrupt all except Super Good+ rolls. In parties consider zana fee. Lockboxes: 3 magic packs, except arcanist and carto. Break out the bank for cartos. 79 Maps Chisel, Exclusively Super Good+ rolls, 3 fragments, consider zana. Consider corrupting Super Good rolls for +1. Lockboxes: 3 magic packs, except carto. Break out the bank for cartos. 80+ Maps Chisel, Exclusively ultra good rolls, 3 fragments, Zana mod(onslaught or ambush). Lockboxes: 3 magic packs, except carto. Break out the bank for cartos, make it damn near legendary. ----------- I rolled a some maps here and this is how i would catagorize them at the moment. Bad(reroll) Decent Good Very Good Super Good Ultra Good Something like that, that is how i feel now, but as i run more i refine my method. Keep doing something like this, and you'll be running 75-78 maps the majority of your time. Used some more chaos, like 15 so now i'm about 60 chaos, and some vaal orbs.. also scoured i think 3 of them. Didn't stick to all rules posted here, you really have to consider each roll, affix paired with tileset and all. Saved 4 chisels from existing quality.. Maybe more, lets just say 4. Average: 3.75 chisel, 3.75 chaos, 0.8 vaal, 0.2 scour = roughly 0.17 ex each to roll on standard, one ex per 5.94 maps. To overcome bad luck there is only one way: spend more currency and roll better maps, sacrificing some of your currrency to persist through the darkness. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Aug 5, 2015, 8:46:57 AM
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" Both boxes and zana +1 missions still exist. | |
" so you are saying that people should run your "very good" or "ultra good" map rolls, but do you know that your "very good" roll it's like once every 20 chaos and "ultra good" once every 50 chaos? people mostly run your "decent" and "good" map rolls and not everyone corrupt them ( most can't play blood magic or phys/ele reflect) , so as you said, you can sustain the map pool only with very good+ rolls. no one is going to throw 15-20 chaos per 77+ map just to sustain them... conclusion: it's too hard to sustain 77-78maps in the current state 2 days ago i chained about 15-20maps 77-78 and managed to sustain them, but a few were 160iiq 30-40% pack using 3 sac fragments, but when i play 76maps with 65%iiq and 15% monster pack i can't even sustain these 76 Last edited by InAshesTheyShallReap on Aug 5, 2015, 2:27:45 AM
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I don't necessarily agree with this at all. I've been doing 73-74 maps all day for the last two days. Alching them, chaosing if needed. Atleast 60% IQ and 30% IR on all maps. And I only get a 73-74 map back usually. And a 75 if I'm extremely lucky. I'm doing almost exactly the same maps as far as IQ and IR goes, but I almost never get a upgraded level map.
IGN: BombTheChildren, ProfessorBigJohnson, SmashTheChildren
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" 15-20 chaos each will actually get you almost around super good levet, nearly fit for 78's. But to roll those maps i spent around 45 chaos. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster on Aug 5, 2015, 3:13:01 AM
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