I'm Surprised to Find that Melee is Easy

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

why wouldnt you have evasion on a melee character? 4 layers of defense that are equally as important as each other for melee, armour, endurance, evasion and ondars.

if desync wasn't a problem - and a huge one for most melee builds I played - the choice between going for some Evasion and Ondar's Guile (my precious....), or going for Unwavering Stance - would be a pretty obvious one.
especially since those parts of the Ranger and Duelist tree have some sweet life nodes too, and other nodes to support a good hybrid character.

but since desync IS a problem, the choice between OG and US as melee is a pretty obvious one.
and since US means you "block" with your face and "dodge" with your biceps, Charan's all-time "favuorite" node Iron Reflexes becomes an obvious choice too.
as is a life leech / life-gain-on-hit gem.
and Seething Flasks because oh god that Giant Vaal Fallen just crit.

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and Seething Flasks because oh god that Giant Vaal Fallen just crit.

I would suggest to not tank these guys. Do hit and run tactic. Their damage is nuts. They hit me for 2k to 3k per hit. They make Colossal Bone Stalkers look like a joke.

not reading through 9 pages of stuff, but melee is totally fine bearcares! I play it almost exclusively, on top of playing solo and rarely trading.
most importantly, if you are having fun playing melee, don't let anyone tell you otherwise :)

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johnKeys wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

why wouldnt you have evasion on a melee character? 4 layers of defense that are equally as important as each other for melee, armour, endurance, evasion and ondars.

if desync wasn't a problem - and a huge one for most melee builds I played - the choice between going for some Evasion and Ondar's Guile (my precious....), or going for Unwavering Stance - would be a pretty obvious one.
especially since those parts of the Ranger and Duelist tree have some sweet life nodes too, and other nodes to support a good hybrid character.

but since desync IS a problem, the choice between OG and US as melee is a pretty obvious one.
and since US means you "block" with your face and "dodge" with your biceps, Charan's all-time "favuorite" node Iron Reflexes becomes an obvious choice too.
as is a life leech / life-gain-on-hit gem.
and Seething Flasks because oh god that Giant Vaal Fallen just crit.

Disagree with US being so mandatory tbh, so many other clever ways to do it ->

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1127504
Etup's HC character

Cyclone builds don't need it and for the rest having evasion, block, dodge, Acro all together just feels far more strong.

I just had a look through melee builds and I found that 9/10 non-cyclone builds don't have US. I only really find it that mandatory when Atziri'ing tbh.

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Chundadragon wrote:

Disagree with US being so mandatory tbh, so many other clever ways to do it ->

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1127504
Etup's HC character

Cyclone builds don't need it and for the rest having evasion, block, dodge, Acro all together just feels far more strong.

I just had a look through melee builds and I found that 9/10 non-cyclone builds don't have US. I only really find it that mandatory when Atziri'ing tbh.

playing without Unwavering Stance is taking a huge risk.
you can be a great player. you can have /oos and logout marcos. you can have a ton of evasion and Endurance Charges and Immortal Call, and overcapped resistances, and a Taste Of Hate or Lightning Coil to mitigate damage even further - but at the end of the day you will get hit, because you are melee. melee get hit.
and the hit can be hard enough to stun.
and the stun will cause desync.
and desync can come in a situation where you either don't notice it, or don't react to it quickly enough.
and then you die.

look at Unwavering Stance. it's a horrible keystone: you sacrifice the chance - no matter how small - to actually *not* get hit, for the ability to never get stunned.
given no desync, no one would take it. ever.
it's a fkn gigantic downside, for an upside Evasion characters can pretty much get for free.
well they *will* get stunned occasionally, but they won't get stun-locked.
desync, makes it a must.
and GGG are so aware of just how game-altering desync is, they changed Cyclone completely to borderline-broken, just to avoid it.

Yes, desync sucks, but believe it or not US doesn't solve all desync.

Look at Dominion desyncing with US and dying to Evangelists in palace.

Look at Havoc and Puri desyncing when namelocked and dying to Uber Trio/Shrine Piety.

Desync happens and US doesn't stop it. It's not like US stops all desync and no matter what you need to learn how to play with desync.

I've learn how to play with desync and I think most people can predict when they're gunna get desynced, take a look yourself at melee players playing around it without US. Sadly playing with desync is probably the biggest skill players need to learn.

well I didn't say you'll be "immune to desync".
I only said Stun is a very notable desync-generator, and Unwavering Stance makes you immune to Stun.

sadly, there are many other cases of desync.
like losing a packet due to a momentary connection hiccup, and having GGG's algorithm scream "you lost a packet! now I'll rubber-band you 2 screens back so you can eat shit and die!" in your face, instead of - you know - actually handling the error and adjusting accordingly.
or it doing the same, in case a monster happened to Casper its way through a wall or an object due to "flawless" Pathing calculations, amplified by the horrible layout of most indoor areas...

and no, you cannot possibly predict it all.
your "skill" in "dealing with desync" - in most cases - ultimately comes down to getting the fk out as quickly as humanly possible, once you notice its aftermath, and pray to whatever god you believe in it's not too late at that point.
oh and you also bulk-up your character's defences and stack up various semi-automated macros, to avoid hitting the "too late" threshold. that would be a good translation to your "I've learned how to play with desync" statement.

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johnKeys wrote:

and no, you cannot possibly predict it all.
your "skill" in "dealing with desync" - in most cases - ultimately comes down to getting the fk out as quickly as humanly possible, once you notice its aftermath, and pray to whatever god you believe in it's not too late at that point.
oh and you also bulk-up your character's defences and stack up various semi-automated macros, to avoid hitting the "too late" threshold. that would be a good translation to your "I've learned how to play with desync" statement.

Please don't associate your lack of skill with me... and you missed the original point - you can't play with desync = you die. Map long enough even with US and you'll still encounter fatal desync. I'm talking about playing hardcore here.

For people who play with Rumi's, Taste of Hate and ele flasks I can ALWAYS predict damage and desync unless it's fairly hilarious desync in which case nothing will save you not even your build. Even devourers or your beloved Vaal Fallens - IC gets popped on my CwDT for 1 second immunity where I press Rumi's, granite, jade whatever and instantly rape the mob. Erroneous damage taken always pops alarm bells where you pop flasks, check if you're shocked etc and /oos.

Packet losses desyncs = nothing will save you, this is a melee thread - it's not like ranged has defences against packet loss either.

Characters defences are always bulked up, it's called a nice build. I only have one macro and that's /oos.

For me, stun doesn't cause desync. Knockback on the otherhand...

If I get cursed with proj weakness, desync will follow shortly after. If I run Heavy Strike for giggles, shit dies all over the screen and sometimes off it as the mobs desync multiple screens away. HoA really highlights the desync when the on-death fire rings ignite critters that are no where near my toon. At times, it looks like I'm running flicker strike+multistrike if the server decides the mobs I'm hitting are in the correct spot and teleports me between them.

So. Fukin'. Bsd.

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Chundadragon wrote:

Please don't associate your lack of skill with me... and you missed the original point - you can't play with desync = you die. Map long enough even with US and you'll still encounter fatal desync. I'm talking about playing hardcore here.

For people who play with Rumi's, Taste of Hate and ele flasks I can ALWAYS predict damage and desync unless it's fairly hilarious desync in which case nothing will save you not even your build. Even devourers or your beloved Vaal Fallens - IC gets popped on my CwDT for 1 second immunity where I press Rumi's, granite, jade whatever and instantly rape the mob. Erroneous damage taken always pops alarm bells where you pop flasks, check if you're shocked etc and /oos.

Packet losses desyncs = nothing will save you, this is a melee thread - it's not like ranged has defences against packet loss either.

Characters defences are always bulked up, it's called a nice build. I only have one macro and that's /oos.

completely didn't understand my point + [Removed by Support]

my point is, [Removed by Support], is you cannot "predict" desync.
you can build with it in mind, and you can react to it when it happens, but you cannot know for certain when it is about to happen. the best you can, is know when it is more likely to happen.
well it is more likely to happen when you get stunned, knocked back, use a known desync-prone movement skill in a narrow passageway, see monsters about to enter said narrow passageway or trying to get around and object... that covers many "potential desync" cases, but not all of them (i.e random packet loss. one example out of many), nor can I guarantee a desync for each time any of the above happens.

and now that we got that straitened out, Unwavering Stance is a way of building with desync in mind. knowing Stun is on the above list, and eliminating it for a price.

as for my "lack of skill", I have a nice list of things I did in the game which I'm very proud of.
I'm sure you do too. neither of us know the other's accomplishments, which means you have no fucking right to disrespect my skill, and I have none to disrespect yours.

point delivered.