I'm Surprised to Find that Melee is Easy

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Zed_ wrote:

My definition might not be the best, I certainly didn't imply an Abyss farmer. But I definitely want a definition that excludes builds that die once per hour in blue 73 maps and builds that fail Apex after having used 6 portals 50% of the time, when we're talking about end-game PvE viability.

Then refer to them as "uber Atziri capable builds" or "73 map capable builds" or something.

The term "endgame" is almost derogatory in and of itself. It implies that other playstyles don't end their game in their own way. I can understand its use when comparing separate games within the genre (ex: PoE maps vs D3 rifts), but even then "postgame" is a far more accurate term.

Yes, this is a mostly semantic argument. But semantics do matter, because words matter. If you'd just say what you mean without using vague terms like "endgame," not only would you convey your ideas more clearly, but you'd also show respect for the oddball builds out there.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Zed_ wrote:

My definition might not be the best, I certainly didn't imply an Abyss farmer. But I definitely want a definition that excludes builds that die once per hour in blue 73 maps and builds that fail Apex after having used 6 portals 50% of the time, when we're talking about end-game PvE viability.

Then refer to them as "uber Atziri capable builds" or "73 map capable builds" or something.

The term "endgame" is almost derogatory in and of itself. It implies that other playstyles don't end their game in their own way. I can understand its use when comparing separate games within the genre (ex: PoE maps vs D3 rifts), but even then "postgame" is a far more accurate term.

Yes, this is a mostly semantic argument. But semantics do matter, because words matter. If you'd just say what you mean without using vague terms like "endgame," not only would you convey your ideas more clearly, but you'd also show respect for the oddball builds out there.

I find it funny how you're the only person here who thinks people are bashing oddball builds. No one said you shouldn't do it, no one said they aren't fun.

Like I said earlier, you just have an inferiority complex, because someone says the build can't do X thing as well as another build doesn't mean it shouldn't be done or diminish the fact that you enjoy a build.

It's not derogatory in the least lmao, you just want to take it that way.

Fact, there are builds that do specific things better than other builds which is what people are saying. They aren't saying don't do the builds because they might not be as good, but if you COMPARE them AKA the thing this thread is about, ranged clears faster and is in less danger than melee.

I'm honestly starting to think you just don't know the definition of, "end".

The summary of this thread, before I posted, is "ITT: forumers tell BearCares his melee build can't possibly be 'endgame viable.'"

So explain to me again how I'm imagining that people are bashing a build for being different.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The summary of this thread, before I posted, is "ITT: forumers tell BearCares his melee build can't possibly be 'endgame viable.'"

So explain to me again how I'm imagining that people are bashing a build for being different.

No one said it wasn't viable, bearcares said it was faster clearing and easier than ranged and people responded that it wasn't, mainly in higher leveled areas where you know, it's actually challenging.

Care to quote a few posts on where people were saying it wasn't viable?

A build being better does not diminish another builds ability to do maps, that's a fact. In this case range > melee, ranged being better doesn't make melee unviable lol.

Edit: Hell, not only did I not see people saying melee wasn't viable, there were quite a few people saying that it isn't as bad as some people say (which I agree with), so yes. That imagination must be running wild.

*raises hand*

Heya folks , just wanted to add in on this melee discussions .

Im playing meele atm , was at the beginning of the league before an untimely sprinkler death aswell (as meele do i ever hate them heralds of obelisk).

Just wanted to say that i do maps up to 78s , but not without skipping mods , more then 1 damage mod or - max, + projectile or eleweakness is a nogo for me (takes about 5-10 mins per map).

It is very comfortable playing high armour meele , not alot of things are dangerous at all , and you can mostly just ignore all mobs .

So i can see where Bearcares is coming from , there is a lot of hate on melee (and armour) saying its not viable and just plain bad, when you actually try it you see that its not the case.

But no , im not as efficient as when i was playing nadoshot last league or eleprolif burning arrow.

melee is a lot more fun though imo , and anyone who wanna give it a go should =).

just my view on things.

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khemintiri wrote:

It is very comfortable playing high armour meele , not alot of things are dangerous at all , and you can mostly just ignore all mobs .

So i can see where Bearcares is coming from , there is a lot of hate on melee (and armour) saying its not viable and just plain bad, when you actually try it you see that its not the case.

But no , im not as efficient as when i was playing nadoshot last league or eleprolif burning arrow.

melee is a lot more fun though imo , and anyone who wanna give it a go should =).

just my view on things.

All true about the current state of melee, but on the same investment, compared to ranged builds (nado shot, Ice shot etc.) melee could have had a lot more bonuses to it considering its a face to face build, more desync prone, armor doesn't do shit on big hits compared to evade ranged builds, less elemental mitigation because of removal of diamond skin, and horrible normal leech mechanics.

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OJ8_Graz wrote:

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khemintiri wrote:

It is very comfortable playing high armour meele , not alot of things are dangerous at all , and you can mostly just ignore all mobs .

So i can see where Bearcares is coming from , there is a lot of hate on melee (and armour) saying its not viable and just plain bad, when you actually try it you see that its not the case.

But no , im not as efficient as when i was playing nadoshot last league or eleprolif burning arrow.

melee is a lot more fun though imo , and anyone who wanna give it a go should =).

just my view on things.

All true about the current state of melee, but on the same investment, compared to ranged builds (nado shot, Ice shot etc.) melee could have had a lot more bonuses to it considering its a face to face build, more desync prone, armor doesn't do shit on big hits compared to evade ranged builds, less elemental mitigation because of removal of diamond skin, and horrible normal leech mechanics.

ah well it is true that its a bit more desync , but armour isnt as bad as you think it is , i reach about 50k with flask and 6 endurance charges + the passive that reduces damage by 4% and physical hits dont really ever touch me , not many mobs in the game can hit through that ,and in worst case you always have a 7sec immortal call coming in that case (will get above 10s with quality on the gems). elemental damage aint that rough either , you do get access to the 20% reduced damage from crits and i use the belt which reduces it further aswell , which actually in that case reduce the same amount of damage as spelldodge in situations where it matters.

But i guess this info will get dismissed as always , but people should try it out , its comfortable cause physical can't touch you really , and its a totally different way to play. while still clearing things relatively fast =).

I wont question that range have it easier though.

Heavy Strike with Multi and Splash is kinda hilarious though.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

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tatapye wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I understand the point that melee is underpowered compared to ranged for ultra-lategame content, where everything hits like a Mack truck. Really, I do.

What I don't understand is how players view such content as "the game," and if you're taking a character to 75 you're not playing "the game." Elitist much?

If you want to be real with yourselves, you guys aren't referring to endgame content. You're referring to post-game content.

Elitist?

You can get to 75 casually playing in a week if you aren't brand new and even then it's not hard.

If you want to be real, END game content is you know, the end of the game. Not end of act 3 after you kill dominus. The highest level, hardest map is end game in this case uber atziri.

post-game content doesn't make sense considering it's not after the game, wut? I didn't realize maps weren't part of this game, my mind is blown.

I have written extensively on end-game vs post-game. Anyone who uses the term 'post-game' is actually saying 'content beyond the narrative'. Maps are most definitely that. 'End-game' typically implies content that you have to do to 'finish' the game. That's not Maps. In fact, a lot of people choose post-game (Maps) over end-game (act 3x+Dominus), since you can do that once you reach Dialla. It's something GGG will have to address with Act 4, and almost certainly will.

Another reason for this distinction is so that people don't start to think that game content is made to get you past level 75-80. At this juncture, it is not. Anything past that is just grinding because you can grind. Level 100 is there 'because it's there'. It's not the end of the game; it's not a goal anyone should feel obliged to reach.

The actual game is level 1-80. The rest is post-game. Bully for you if you disagree: that makes you pretty damn elite. Less than 1% of characters have played in a Map. That is a fact. How you behave regarding this fact is what will decide if you're an elitist or not.

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Addressing BearCares: AoE-melee is fine. It's just not really much fun for me. Multi-splash is one of the most egregious things GGG ever implemented. It is a crutch and too many people use it for that crutch to be seen as the fault of the user. I say egregious because those two gems signaled precisely what GGG think melee should be. From there, it was a disgustingly logical step that we'd see things like Molten and Static Strike. What, people like Melee Splash? I know, we'll stick it on the skill built-in! They'll love that!

Content goes up to 80, nowhere did I say that 80 was not end game, he was doing 71 maps. That's where people said it was not end game, which it is NOT (IMO). You can not even equip everything at that level. He himself admits that he doesn't do high level content all that often.

Doesn't matter if it is grinding that is end game, that's what ARPG's are, if you don't think so, holy crap are you playing the wrong kind of game.

exp penalty doesn't even kick in till well passed level 80 if you are at actual end game content so why is it not made to get passed level 80, care to elaborate? No one even said anything about level 100, you, like Scrotie, have been bringing up things no one has ever mentioned let alone them having the same views.

The actual game is according to your logic, end of normal dominus and everything after is just fluff, it's there just because.

1% of the people has ZERO relevance on what end game content is and who is an, "elitist". Not an elite, an elitist, very very different definitions and the term elitist was used. Just because the average person can't/doesn't do something, doesn't change the fact that there is more content in the GAME they are playing even if they don't get to that point.

The whole end game argument came to be because people felt inferior because of how other people perceived the end game to be, which by end game they meant the hardest content people can actually get up to. The actual content that provided the range is better than melee debate in the first place. No one argues which build can clear normal docks the easiest, because there isn't a problem to be seen there. Hence, why people talk about high level maps and not easier content.

Where's your high level hc melee character?