I'm Surprised to Find that Melee is Easy

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johnKeys wrote:

"end-game" is an abstract concept.
"viability" is an abstract concept which needs a lot of additional parameters to be comparable. simply put, you need to define an apple precisely as an apple, and an orange precisely as an orange, before you can compare "viability" of two apples or two oranges. and you can't compare an apple to an orange.

Don't you think any definition of "end-game viable build" should include being able to unlock the highest levels of character power? In this game that would mean:

- Able to get (close to) maximum character level. That means being able to run the highest levels of maps with high enough quantity and low enough currency used to be sustainable, with a very low risk of dying. Yes, it is possible to grind Docks for 2 years and get level 100 so this is still not a precise definition. But let's stick with the reasonable here.
- Able to acquire the best items in the game. Other than the already covered high level maps for base items and map-only uniques, this means killing Atziri for the powerful items that are gated behind her.

If you can justify calling a character that can't do at least one of these an end-game character, I wonder how you do it. I think this is what most people mean by it and the most objective it gets.

The only true end-game in this game is re-rolling. So what, you have cleared a 78? whats next? Some make it seem like a hard thing to do while its not.
When you have done everything in the game regarding maps the only thing left is trying new builds.

Re-roll is my end game hobby.


And yes, melee is easy in low leveled maps.

@Zed

I think that comes close to a good definition for "Abyss farmer." Although clear speed averages through repititive performance is important.

But let's look at the whole life cycle here. To farm Abyss, you need pieces from Apex. To farm Apex, you need sacrifice pieces. Do you genuinely believe the same exact build is optimized for all three tasks?

Builds have goals. There is no universal standard. Sometimes it's farming goals, as described above. Sometimes PvP. Sometimes solo racing (essentially, purposefully self-found). Sometimes satire (such as Charan's shieldblock templar).

And sometimes it's just for that arbitrary, often irrational thing we call fun.

Please remove your universal standard for a good build from this thread.

When you beat Dominus in Normal the credits roll....Dominus in Normal is endgame

Just because people stop midway through or have different goals. Doesn't actually mean they got to end game because they did what they wanted to do, the fact is that ENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD game is at the end of a game, not sure why that flies over so many heads. Probably an inferiority complex.

I made a character, I used basic attacks to kill hillock on normal and it was super easy. That was my goal, I reached end game guys.

What I can confirm from my experience.

Auto attacks OP, melee OP, level 1 OP. I can safely say because I THINK these things, they are true.

Also at scrotie, never played a tornado shot/puncture build before? Does everything.

You have reached the end-game when you no longer have fun.

:')

Peace,

-Boem-

Anything you clear as melee, I guarantee my TS ranger can clear faster.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@Zed

I think that comes close to a good definition for "Abyss farmer." Although clear speed averages through repititive performance is important.

But let's look at the whole life cycle here. To farm Abyss, you need pieces from Apex. To farm Apex, you need sacrifice pieces. Do you genuinely believe the same exact build is optimized for all three tasks?

Builds have goals. There is no universal standard. Sometimes it's farming goals, as described above. Sometimes PvP. Sometimes solo racing (essentially, purposefully self-found). Sometimes satire (such as Charan's shieldblock templar).

And sometimes it's just for that arbitrary, often irrational thing we call fun.

Please remove your universal standard for a good build from this thread.

I don't know what you're responding to here. Fun is ok, pvp is ok, racing is ok. But none of them is end-game PvE, and that's what the discussion was about.

My definition might not be the best, I certainly didn't imply an Abyss farmer. But I definitely want a definition that excludes builds that die once per hour in blue 73 maps and builds that fail Apex after having used 6 portals 50% of the time, when we're talking about end-game PvE viability.

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Zed_ wrote:

My definition might not be the best, I certainly didn't imply an Abyss farmer. But I definitely want a definition that excludes builds that die once per hour in blue 73 maps and builds that fail Apex after having used 6 portals 50% of the time, when we're talking about end-game PvE viability.

What blue 73 maps are we talking about? Like what mods because my RF Discharge build can't do -max resist maps so because I have to reroll is that not endgame viable?

And does that mean builds that revolve around freeze, stun, and ignite are not endgame viable?

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Hunt8722 wrote:

What blue 73 maps are we talking about? Like what mods because my RF Discharge build can't do -max resist maps so because I have to reroll is that not endgame viable?

Well if you really make less than an Alteration per map I guess you're doomed yes.

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Hunt8722 wrote:

And does that mean builds that revolve around freeze, stun, and ignite are not endgame viable?

Where is this coming from? You're referring to Apex I guess. I said the build should have at least one end-game use, experience OR items. The list of builds that can run high level maps in a sustainable way is VERY inclusive.

People are extremely nitpicky today and I'm starting to lose my patience. If you want to have a discussion about how melee is fine because Charan's block Templar cleared Merciless Docks in 10 minutes, then fine, I'll be out of here in a second.