I'm Surprised to Find that Melee is Easy

^even more funny is the fact that softcore has more experience with the current end-game then hardcore :).

For comparison purposes i mean, more build variety and more variety in rolled maps gives them a clear edge over game mechanics and potential RNG generated numbers on mobs and as such floors for defense value's.

funny really when you think about it :p.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Chundadragon wrote:

Well to be fair to him, 78 maps are the actual endgame for players and 85+ suggests you have spent time in the endgame, Uber Atziri is not a real sustainable endgame, just the final challenge for most builds that often is just done once and rarely farmed these days as much as it was before.

78 maps what? solo or party? in HC or SC? melee or not? self-found or traded? ... you're trying to fit an elephant into a match box man, and I know people who never got to maps above 75 (not even in a party), and have no intention to - who can teach all the snotty "end-game" elitists a thing or two about pretty much any aspect of the game.
and this arbitrary "boundary" of level 85? yeah totally can't reach that just farming Docks and Dominus all day every day... so let's make that 86, huh? 87? 99.95?

so again and for the last time: being level X or doing content Y, doesn't mean you know anything more than someone who's level X-1 doing content Y-1.
not in this game, at least.

and it sure as fuck doesn't give you the right to shut someone up, or disrespect their opinion.
anyone has the right to speak his/her mind on the forums, no matter if they are killing Normal Hillock or farming Uber Atziri.

I hope I made myself clear.
now let's get back on-topic.

I'm not fitting anything into anything before we derail this any further, but with the way the current game is and how 78 maps are so sustainable and how if you know what you're doing and you play a couple days you are guaranteed 85+, it's a pretty good judge. And please, don't be ridiculous with docks.

I'm not even shutting you up, I'm just stopping you from being overly defensive with someone who technically is correct. (I too agree with Tempada, also including his last paragraph - how can you actually compare the two builds endgame which is what counts without playing both in what most players call endgame?)

Too much is anecdotal and not relevant and what actually matters in my opinion (and what most players call balance) is how they both compare when you invest about 5 exalts into it and try 76+ maps.

To follow on from this, the definition of viability and ease with melee builds changes very rapidly as you go up the levels - die at 75 it doesn't matter (if you only keep to those levels, pretty much everything is viable), 85 and you lose ~20 minutes, die at 95 and you lose hours in which if you die once a day, you might as well uninstall the game.

you really didn't get my point, Chunda.
what is "endgame"? ask 20 people and you'll likely get 20 different answers what it is.
and even if 2 people give you the same answer, ask them what is "end-game viable" in their view. is it not dying a.k.a being "HC-viable" or "level 90+ viable"? is it "fast clear speed"? how fast? with what gear? and what are the gear-quality ranges for a specific build? and how do you compare two builds, again assuming same "end-game" definition and same "viability" definition?...

and one person using his own definitions of the above, to tell another person his view is invalid? that's taking a flawed behavior to the ultimate scum-bag level.
no excuse for that, other than for a sake of trolling.

as opposed to "end-game" howeverthefuckyoudefineit though, the range vs. melee imbalance is clearly visible for anyone who played both. yes, played. doesntfuckingmatter if to level 70 or 150.
playing melee is usually being slower and chasing monsters around. playing melee is usually taking more hits. therefore playing melee is usually more demanding in terms of gear, which as you know in my opinion has absolutelyfuckingnothing to do with a player's actual skill in cutting up monsters, and everything to do with their luck, social and trading skills.

Bearcares finds melee "easy", probably because he has insane gear and can "Mortezzah" (uberfacetank) stuff while simultaneously doing ridiculous damage.
I find nothing "easy", because melee or ranged I can get fkn rekt at any given moment, playing just about any content.
but I can afford that extra half a second of taking my eyes off the ball, as ranged, caster or summoner/totemer, compared to melee where I'm always on my toes.

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johnKeys wrote:

why 80+ and 78 maps? why not 99+ and Uber Atziri farming? anyone below that doesn't know shit about the game, apparently, and should keep his/her noobish mouth shut while the "grown-ups" are discussing serious things, right?

don't be fkn ridiculous.
this right here, nullifies all the smart things you wrote in your post.

I say 80+ because at that point you can equip any item or gem that you want, plus you have plenty of skill points to mess around with. I use 78 maps (really 76+ since you can get lvl 78 map drops in 76 maps) as a benchmark in part because there's a huge difference between enemy damage in low level and high level maps. Conquering low level maps is very doable with most builds. For a more well-rounded view of the game, you need to have leveled a number of characters, tried self-found, tried trading, used build-enabling uniques, and played high levels maps with various mods (solo and in groups) for comparison. If you can conquer high level maps and feel good about it, you can probably conquer Atziri (as long as your build doesn't rely on burning damage). I leave Uber Atziri out of it because it's such a specialized fight that will never concern the vast majority of players. I could even leave basic Atziri out of the picture. The important part is maps/leveling so that you can experience parts of the game that are locked behind level requirements and rng.

I'm not being elitist. There are so many ways to play this game, plus it's a pain in the ass to actually get high level maps and good drops, so I'm not putting anyone down for not experiencing such content. What I am saying is that the op is missing a certain perspective, and that's ok. He doesn't have a full picture of the difficulties that face melee and ranged characters throughout the game. He asks what he's missing from that picture, and some people are trying to fill in the gaps of knowledge.

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johnKeys wrote:

this arbitrary "boundary" of level 85? yeah totally can't reach that just farming Docks and Dominus all day every day... so let's make that 86, huh? 87? 99.95?

I reached level 85 with two different characters just by farming Catacombs when I didn't have any good drops and knew little about mapping. It sucks, but it's doable. Any leveling beyond that without maps is pretty crazy. These numbers aren't so arbitrary since you can only go so far without maps.

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johnKeys wrote:

what is "endgame"? ask 20 people and you'll likely get 20 different answers what it is. and even if 2 people give you the same answer, ask them what is "end-game viable" in their view. is it not dying a.k.a being "HC-viable" or "level 90+ viable"? is it "fast clear speed"? how fast? with what gear? and what are the gear-quality ranges for a specific build? and how do you compare two builds, again assuming same "end-game" definition and same "viability" definition?...

I'm pretty sure that most would say endgame = mapping. "Endgame viable" suggests that a build allows a player to finish Merciless and map. Map how far? As far as they can given rng or trade ability. "Hardcore viable" is a sillier term. Most builds that don't get torn up by reflect are hardcore viable if you play carefully, but the desync fun factor causes some people to think it means you should be able to facetank most content with the suggested gear.

Well no, BearCares finds melee easy because he is I think level 78 on his melee character and if you look at my above post and examine what I said - anything is viable at those levels since dying = meh, 5 minutes.

To actually balance the character for survivability and damage with melee later will cost a lot more.

However, I will remain to my point - endgame viability is 5 ex and 76+ maps. It's simple. Either SC or HC, clearing packs without undue effort. This is a very agreed upon definition of endgame, reachable by anyone. If you ask mappers what their endgame is, that's the endgame. I'm not budging on it and I won't call anything before that stage endgame. It's not elitist in any sense as I've said previously - anyone can get there.

Sorry buddy but if you think your play is endgame, I don't. You have your own playstyle, cool - everyone plays this game differently. I'm not trolling, it's just not endgame.

It's also interesting to note that endgame changes, now it's 76-78 maps since it's so easy to sustain those maps these days, before maybe two years ago what you do could be called endgame but now it's like calling the middle of the ladder the top.

Cleared a level 75 blue map today, took me 20 minutes. I'm a 2H melee using heavy strike/infernal blow. AMA

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Chundadragon wrote:

endgame viability is 5 ex and 76+ maps. It's simple. Either SC or HC.

oh I get it now.
you are saying that if my build is level 85.01, 4.995 Exalts and I can solo-clear a white Bazaar, Precinct, Gorge or Plateau in 37.45783 seconds, while yours is level 84.76, costs 5.117 Exalts (or even self-found ffs), clears Gorge in 38.123 seconds, never did a Precinct, but is capable of defeating Jungle fkn Valley Weaver and Torture Chamber squid with fkn extra damage mods ===> I'm so much more fkn "end-game" than you, right?

*reserved space for some more BS number throwing that don't mean shit*

you are trolling me. deliberately pissing me off.
you can't possibly be this fkn dense.
especially considering if we ignore your BS-spewing right here, I really do enjoy your "Uber kills" thread and gameplay tips posts.

so I rage-quit out of this stupid, mind-freezing argument. alt-fkn-f4.
and for the record, I would NEVER try to shut someone up or claim their opinion "invalid", because they aren't fkn "end-game".
nor will I have the audacity, stupidity and trollishness to pass an opinion as "definition".

- gmp casters are fun as melee
- as are the boss mechanics that kill you in melee range or force you out
- armor/shield needs to wear caster items to get spell block, sacrificing multiple slots just to survive
- armor/2h builds are terrible because of zero elemental mitigation

These are my main gripes with melee currently. Otherwise it seems close to balanced.

Well if it's any consolation, I've been doing high quanityt 74-75 maps lately thanks to Zana's daily giving me a few maps. Finally realizing that relying on lightning coil is a problem when alching those. When so many mods mess with your resists you then get weaker to elemental AND physical damage.

Which causes desync for me when I get hit hard. Which happens more often for melee. That's the main downside I see so far. Other than this increased desync, I still wouldn't say it's harder than ranged. But then again I've never copied a guide for any pre established ranged builds. So what do I know?

At the moment this melee character's gear is complete. So I'm now just wasting my currency on coward's trials and such. I usually reroll at this point =p SO I admit not usually doing much high level content.