Ways to balance low-life shavronnes builds and daggerers/wanders

You lack vision...

If you're going to use a wand you're limited to wands and Power Siphon which is a serious restriction compared to being able to use literally any melee weapon in the game as a ranged class.

Also those supports are an investment that is not needed with ST.

BTW ST is also a cheaper to use mana wise, relatively it's pretty much the cheapest skill in the game.

So yes using wands or bows with this build is fine with me, being able to use ST is totally wrong whether this build needs to be nerfed in other ways or not.

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Startkabels wrote:

You lack vision...

If you're going to use a wand you're limited to wands and Power Siphon which is a serious restriction compared to being able to use literally any melee weapon in the game as a ranged class.

You are so confused about what your arguing about I don't even think you'll understand your own argument when you read this tomorrow.

If your gunna use a wand, you get to use ->

Power Siphon for AoE clearing
Frenzy for Hard Boss Clearing
Barrage for Easy Bosses
Elemental Hit for Freezing

I don't think you've learnt that low-life spectral sucks without daggers, PLEASE stop basing your arguments around builds that are worse. These builds are better - get with the meta.

Daggers are better. Use it with melee.
Anger and Wrath stacking is better. Use it with melee.
Low-life is better. Use it with melee.
CoE is better. Use it with melee.
Blood Rage is better. Use it with melee.

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Startkabels wrote:

Also those supports are an investment that is not needed with ST.

NO PLEASE STOP TALKING OUT YOUR ASS

Those supports make it better, if I could put Chain on Spectral I would remove everything for it.

You try to talk you ass out of it as we were talking about monster reflect. ST has the damage mitigation out of the box without any supports due to the way iti works.

Thanks for the examples that prove my point about the design of ST:

If you're going to use Power Siphon you're limited to wands and if you're going to use Barrage you're limited to ranged weapons. Those skills are designed correctly unlike ST that let's you use any melee weapon as a ranged skill.

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Startkabels wrote:

You try to talk you ass out of it as we were talking about monster reflect. ST has the damage mitigation out of the box without any supports due to the way iti works.

Thanks for the examples that prove my point about the design of ST:

If you're going to use Power Siphon you're limited to wands and if you're going to use Barrage you're limited to ranged weapons. Those skills are designed correctly unlike ST that let's you use any melee weapon as a ranged skill.

You say ST is more practical because of reflect mitigation constantly talking out your ass making up bullshit whereas EXPERIENCED players are just telling you that you are wrong. Accept it. You don't have a degree in nuclear physics, you wouldn't dare argue with a physicist about physics.

Spectral has better damage mitigation out the box? Prove it. I've played the build. I understand it. I'm waiting.

And so why are the overpowered only using Daggers? NO ONE IS USING SWORDS, AXES, MACES.

Every other melee weapon sucks. They might as well not exist. This has nothing to do with your bringing spectral into this.

You have no idea what your arguing about. ST may as well be restricted to daggers for these builds, if you use any other weapon - you are a joke.

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You don't have a degree in nuclear physics, you wouldn't dare argue with a physicist.

You have no idea what kind of education I have and it's not relevant. Are you trying to brag about your degrees or something? A person with that kind of education is not likely to brag about it on a game's forum haha. Pathetic really, but whatever

Anyway, ST has damage mitigation out of the box yes. It mitigates monster reflect damage more than Power Siphon does espcially in this build's context, because that's inherent to the way ST works (boomerang, hits enemy twice). Or did you believe it's a coincidence ST works like this and GGG just implemented it for fun not thinking about the damage?

Daggers are used because they're probably the best melee weapons in the game, they have the best nodes in the tree too many players believe.

So I'm discussing the design of ST for you information, you're the one that keeps arguing and falling out of line.
So I will just say it again: I don't advertise a redesign of ST because the build this topic's about might be OP at all.
So why do I discuss it in this topic? Because basically everybody uses ST with daggers as their first choice for this "OP" build and you among others are structurally ignoring that for some reason.

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Startkabels wrote:

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You don't have a degree in nuclear physics, you wouldn't dare argue with a physicist ABOUT PHYSICS.

I'll apologise for this one - that's what I meant to say. I don't have a degree in physics btw, that was an example.

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Anyway, ST has damage mitigation out of the box yes. It mitigates monster reflect damage more than Power Siphon does because that's inherent to the way ST works (boomerang, hits enemy twice). Or did you believe it's a coincidence ST works like this and GGG just implemented it for fun not thinking about the damage?

Wrong. Compared to Power Siphon which allows you to completely mitigate the reflect damage with AA? It's far worse. Boomerang means that if you don't crit and it comes back you'll die. Don't start throwing theory crafting with no numbers towards me - it doesn't fly. 1 in 400 you'll die guaranteed with Acuities on hard reflect if you don't crit twice with spectral. Guaranteed you'll die. Play with Vaal Pact and you'll die even more - Power Siphon is immune.

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Daggers are used because they're probably the best melee weapons in the game, they have the best nodes in the tree too many players believe.

Yes, they do. And this thread is about daggers.

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So I'm discussing the design of ST for you information, you're the one that keeps arguing and falling out of line.

And you're just plain wrong about ST. End of. See the above.

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Startkabels wrote:

So why do I discuss it in this topic? Because basically everybody uses ST with daggers as their first choice for this "OP" build and you among others are structurally ignoring that for some reason.

ST isn't broken, it's just the best mechanism for delivering the low-life mechanic which is broken towards you.

Nothing else.

Three choices for ranged - wander, split arrow, spectral - one has to be the best even if by 1% BY DEFINITION - it's spectral.

Oh so now it's about daggers is it?

No read the OP, we all know about what end game this topics is.

And the title reads is about balance isn't it? So all balance is to you is a balance in damage?

Fine with me if you think that, for me balance involves more than just damage. It also involves balance between classes for me.

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Chundadragon wrote:

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Startkabels wrote:

So why do I discuss it in this topic? Because basically everybody uses ST with daggers as their first choice for this "OP" build and you among others are structurally ignoring that for some reason.

ST isn't broken, it's just the best mechanism for delivering the low-life mechanic which is broken towards you.

Nothing else.

Three choices for ranged - wander, split arrow, spectral - one has to be the best even if by 1% BY DEFINITION - it's spectral.

Being able for all melee builds to be able to get a huge benefit efficiency wise only from switching to a ranged skill is completely wrong...

So I see ST as a big balance issue across classes and since this topic is about the balance of a build that uses ST I think I'm perfectly ontopic.