deleted thread - a clarification

So, JK, are you happy?

I mean, you are getting the attention that you stated you wanted in the deleted thread. Does it make you feel better? Is it enhancing your enjoyment of the game?

I am all for freedom of expression, and I happily promote/defend Free Speech. However, I am pretty sure that even on Hyde Park Corner they won't let you put down a different soap box from which to shout the same arguments you had for the past month without removing the boxes you stood on the day before.

But no, you litter the whole park, with copies of the same box, multiple times per day. Oh, you might splash a little paint on one here or there, but it's the same box. It's also the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT. And, in many areas, what you are complaining about is never the game itself but your perception of the game.

Like the recent post where you actually complain about getting an Exalted Orb. That's right folks, JK complained that RNG dropped an Exalt for him out of a container because, in his estimation, it is shitty design that he can get a drop like that from a container and yet only get white items from a difficult to beat Nemesis rare.

IMO, we are dealing with someone that refuses to find enjoyment with the game and denies the possibility that he might be the cause of much of his dissatisfaction.

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Mivo wrote:

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Bars wrote:

And, as you said, gaming forums are a hostile environment as a general rule. If you want a really civilized community, try chess :P

I'm a Go player, but yes, we also tend to be a pretty laid back, esoteric, hippie-minded bunch. ;) Chess, I don't know, I used to read the chess newsgroups on Usenet, some twenty, twenty-five years back, and these people were aggressively competitive with one another! Extremely snarky, on a rather high intellectual level. Civilized, but not civil. Kind of like gaming forums now, really. The type of people who played chess fiercely back then are probably today's Dota and SC2 players.

You're right, though, it's probably best to focus on the positive, and the PoE forums are definitely a much friendlier place now than they were in the first two months after release. (But, and no, I can't resist: the moderation has become more deliberate and focused since! Chris' new policy about hateful posts was a result of the situation.)

I stand corrected. You hit the nail on the head with the distinction between civilized and civil. I guess my standards are lower because I've played SC and dota for more than 10 years and people in the SC and dota communities are, in general, neither civil nor civilized :)

About this forum: if it reached its present state after the no hateful posts policy, I'd say it worked pretty well.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

And if GGG make a rule that repeated posting of the same shit will incur deletion, I will cheer. I truly will.

I agree on principle, I just don't have an issue with it in this case.

Obviously this is a BAD move by GGG and I get that it's NEVER good to delete threads unless there is something "illegal" in them, I'm sure they've learned from this - if someone like you would lose your confidence in GGG there obviously is an issue.

It is very common tactic for them these days.

You can clearly see they devote energy and (your) money to get fresh blood into game and having negative topics in general forum is not good for them.

It is better for them to get newb to drop money on stash tabs then pay bandwidth and server bill for someone who already have them.

I raged years ago they focus on USELESS things like adding more races, leagues and minor tweaking of skill tree etc which was true in that current state of game and is true years after nevertheless. Guess what i was probated.

Years after situation is completely same only with minor addition of immediately forum censorship. Yes their response is somewhat withing seconds and 24/7 this indicate they dedicate a lot of money to "moderate" forum.

This is unfortunately current state of forum and not just fucked up over the top joke



Really guys we tried to be constructive you treat as as some filth (even chris stated in recent interview that community is toxic and poisonous) to not be harsh he stated that its sometimes great too.

That was his direct answer for legacy raging on forum his reponse was middle finger and legacy are no longer technical difficulty but feature.

Same story with desynch, we as community have to prove devs that some things can be solve when they can't over the years. Just rage over forum about desynch little bit more like over legacy items and soon in changelog desynch is feature of game to prevent cheating.

We have enough of these lies or incompetence , you killing your own game.

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Michael_GGG wrote:

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Barl wrote:

There are clearly inconsistencies in moderation and I think that is the most frustrating apsect of this episode.
Ozoug's post ("Obvious trolls. Their threads should be deleted with out warning, and without explanation. Waste of time, waste of space, waste of life.") is cleary aggressive and condescending, yet stands as posted with no moderation.

Consistency breeds credibilty (and vice versa).

Thanks Barl, consistency is definitely the ideal. In Ozoug's case it is a matter of degree, how strong/aggressive is too strong, in my opinion the tone of his reply was borderline but arguably still within the rules.

edit: Today we were told we are too draconian, while others say we are too lax, there is a middle-ground we want to walk, hopefully this doesn't just mean we get put in range of both camps.

First let me say, my comments below are not in response to any poster in particular, but I do believe they are germane to the overall purpose of this thread - namely on illuminating why threads or posts are considered to exceed acceptable limits.


There is another factor in play in the forum. Many people will say that the following information is obvious. Some will disagree entirely with the premise. The significance doesn't lie with the premise of the information, but rather the fact the premise has been tested and in a manner that later studies can either verify or dispute.

The Premise?

"It's a scientific FACT: Online comment trolls are SADISTS"

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.paid.2014.01.016



Abstract:

Abstract

In two online studies (total N = 1215), respondents completed personality inventories and a survey of their Internet commenting styles. Overall, strong positive associations emerged among online commenting frequency, trolling enjoyment, and troll identity, pointing to a common construct underlying the measures. Both studies revealed similar patterns of relations between trolling and the Dark Tetrad of personality: trolling correlated positively with sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism, using both enjoyment ratings and identity scores. Of all personality measures, sadism showed the most robust associations with trolling and, importantly, the relationship was specific to trolling behavior. Enjoyment of other online activities, such as chatting and debating, was unrelated to sadism. Thus cyber-trolling appears to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/12/study_shoes_that_online_comment_trolls_are_sadists/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886914000324

More Info: http://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Internet_Trolling#

I will reiterate that this post is not about the OP or any thread/poster in particular. I do think it clarifies something many people have suspected all along.

I haven't yet stumbled across any resource that makes it simple to divine when someone fits into this category of posting style. If they ever come up with an algorithm for it, than it will be one of the most sought after software packages. We have antivirus, firewall and adblockers now. Someday we will have something like Troll Aware systematic forum cleaning software.

We can call it the day September finally ended.

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lastResistance wrote:

It is very common tactic for them these days.

And we have a hater... no I don't agree with what you said.

[Removed by Support]

I just wanted to point out that when Jonathan made his post following the 2 hour downtime, and the two times Rhys did "Questions Answered" threads for Inexium, the forum was pretty sedate for the next few days in both cases, and everyone loves Russell.

I'm sure that the devs are extremely busy getting 1.1 out, but I think when they make their presences known around here, it really helps with keeping things to a simmer instead of a boil. Just something to think about.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Spoiler

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

So, JK, are you happy?

I mean, you are getting the attention that you stated you wanted in the deleted thread. Does it make you feel better? Is it enhancing your enjoyment of the game?

I am all for freedom of expression, and I happily promote/defend Free Speech. However, I am pretty sure that even on Hyde Park Corner they won't let you put down a different soap box from which to shout the same arguments you had for the past month without removing the boxes you stood on the day before.

But no, you litter the whole park, with copies of the same box, multiple times per day. Oh, you might splash a little paint on one here or there, but it's the same box. It's also the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT. And, in many areas, what you are complaining about is never the game itself but your perception of the game.

Like the recent post where you actually complain about getting an Exalted Orb. That's right folks, JK complained that RNG dropped an Exalt for him out of a container because, in his estimation, it is shitty design that he can get a drop like that from a container and yet only get white items from a difficult to beat Nemesis rare.

IMO, we are dealing with someone that refuses to find enjoyment with the game and denies the possibility that he might be the cause of much of his dissatisfaction.

None of which is relevant to what really happened.

I dunno, I don't really have a problem with occasional "trash removal", which is, I suppose, what I was attempting to point out.

I also doubt that anyone could come up with an objective viewpoint regarding "what really happened." Suffice it to say, it did happen, GGG has expressed the possibility that mistakes might have been made, and has attempted to provide an outlet of discussion. I find the moderation actions in all of this to be far more mature and responsible than most of the posters involved (not excluding myself from this equation).

Hell, I find it amazingly open-minded that we are even allowed to hold a discussion concerning moderation issues on these forums, as many official forums hold that sacrosanct and will happily kick/ban at the drop of a hat for any discussion related to moderation decisions.

@Charan -

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Perfect_Black wrote:

On a semi-related note, I would love to see repeat troll posters get temporary, potentially permanent, forum restrictions for reaching a certain threshold of non-contributory, useless posts.

The forums should be a place for genuine comments, not random derps of impulsive nothingness.

Punish the trolls. They don't deserve to drown out even one genuine contribution.

qft. I troll myself occasionly, and i really wish i'd get punished for it harshly. Passive-Agressive trolling is the worst the internet has to offer (and i'm not talking about nonsense-trolls like MonstaMunch here, i like those a lot).

@OP:

You wouldn't believe how many people 60 years old are acting less mature than other people half their age. So, sorry to burst your bubbles, but it's not the age that matter but the state of mind. And if you were 100 years old, i'd still be unable to respect you at all with this something you call a "post" you dropped yesterday.

And yes, i do think that there are topics no one should be allowed to just "speak their mind" about, basicly because all this "freedom of speech" creates is misinformation and lies to poison other people's mind. Not that those topics should come up in this forum anyway, but in general.