deleted thread - a clarification

@Anu Yes, you're pushing it :P

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kasub wrote:

@Anu Yes, you're pushing it :P

Indeed.

Sorry. :)

.

And this increase in moderation is why people noticed that i just seemed to suddenly drop off the forums, when you used to see my reply as the last one on at least one forum section at any given time of the day.

I really think GGG underestimates how much they actually are culling feedback with how inconsistent their moderation is. I give the most blunt feedback possible, because if a developer is doing something stupid, calling it stupid will likely make them realize it's stupid and look harder at it. Calling it "less than optimal" or "not ideal" doesn't have the same effect.

People like me use harsh words in our constructive criticism to emphasize just how broken some things are. It's not always the nicest and sometimes can definitely use some editing, but it's borderline enough that i just don't post feedback on this game at all anymore.

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Xendran wrote:

I give the most blunt feedback possible, because if a developer is doing something stupid, calling it stupid will likely make them realize it's stupid and look harder at it. Calling it "less than optimal" or "not ideal" doesn't have the same effect.

Few things only have one side, and usually, players only consider a limited subset of them whereas a developer or designer has to look at all of them. What may be "stupid" to you may be a desirable feature to someone else, and there may be effect chains that you're not considering because you don't see the bigger picture. Things are often simple in isolation only.

It strikes me as naive and inexperienced to believe that someone will be more likely to realize their "mistakes" or "flaws" if you insult or attack them. It's far more likely that they will resent you and mentally shut down, ensuring that nothing you say will be taken seriously or consiered by them. (Or do you, after reading this, really think "Hmm, he has a point, maybe I'm being stupid."? I bet not.)

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Michael_GGG wrote:

edit: Today we were told we are too draconian, while others say we are too lax, there is a middle-ground we want to walk, hopefully this doesn't just mean we get put in range of both camps.

An impossible ideal. If you try to satisfy everyone, you'll satisfy no one, and more importantly, you'll endlessly send mixed signals and confuse everyone, which then leads to threads like this one. Leaving a thread like the present one (which is a follow-up to one that was locked) not only unlocked, but also in General Discussion, while at the same time moving/locking threads that are far less negative, whiny and "trollish", including pretty much every other thread that is a continuation of a locked thread, it looks erratic and makes it hard for people to understand what the actual rules are.

You're like the cat who sometimes eats the mice and sometimes lets them dance on your nose and play with your whiskers, without the mice having a way to tell which it will be, until you swallow them. Or not. It's like trying to 6L a chest.

Of course it's difficult. But look at this thread. Is anything genuinely constructive or productive coming from it? If you read this thread as someone who is interested in perhaps playing this game, would the exchange here make you think, "Hey, this looks like a friendly community, I want to be part of this?".

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Mivo wrote:

Of course it's difficult. But look at this thread. Is anything genuinely constructive or productive coming from it? If you read this thread as someone who is interested in perhaps playing this game, would the exchange here make you think, "Hey, this looks like a friendly community, I want to be part of this?".

I've participated in dota, star craft, rift and D3 forums (in the case of D3: shortly) and I have to say this is hands-down the most friendly, constructive and mature gaming forum I've been in.

*thinks of D3 and star craft forums*

*shudders*

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Bars wrote:

I've participated in dota, star craft, rift and D3 forums (in the case of D3: shortly) and I have to say this is hands-down the most friendly, constructive and mature gaming forum I've been in.

Well, we have different experiences. It's not as bad right now as it was in around November when the forum in general, and General Discussion in particular, was flooded with negativity, complaints (mostly unreasonable), whining, or conspiracy theories. To me, it was a pretty big turn-off and for a while I'd only read Gameplay Help, which is generally a much friendlier place.

Gaming forums are generally more hostile and less mature than many other types of forums, but some of the stuff that went down here was pretty rough. I don't necessarily mind it, because sometimes it's fun to play in the sandbox and say and do all the stuff I can never do at my job, but even though I'm fairly thick-skinned, some of what I read here definitely triggers negativity in me, too. And looking at how people treat others here quite frequently, that isn't just me.

If I had to name a mature, friendly gaming forum, I'd point to the one of Paradox. Maybe it's all the killing we do here. :)

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Mivo wrote:

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Bars wrote:

I've participated in dota, star craft, rift and D3 forums (in the case of D3: shortly) and I have to say this is hands-down the most friendly, constructive and mature gaming forum I've been in.

Well, we have different experiences. It's not as bad right now as it was in around November when the forum in general, and General Discussion in particular, was flooded with negativity, complaints (mostly unreasonable), whining, or conspiracy theories. To me, it was a pretty big turn-off and for a while I'd only read Gameplay Help, which is generally a much friendlier place.

Gaming forums are generally more hostile and less mature than many other types of forums, but some of the stuff that went down here was pretty rough. I don't necessarily mind it, because sometimes it's fun to play in the sandbox and say and do all the stuff I can never do at my job, but even though I'm fairly thick-skinned, some of what I read here definitely triggers negativity in me, too. And looking at how people treat others here quite frequently, that isn't just me.

If I had to name a mature, friendly gaming forum, I'd point to the one of Paradox. Maybe it's all the killing we do here. :)

It might have been bad in November, I wouldn't know since I'm part of the new crowd. Although I registered a long time ago, I started playing only recently. And, as you said, gaming forums are a hostile environment as a general rule. If you want a really civilized community, try chess :P

A quick recipe for becoming immune to trolls and negativity: spend some time in 4Chan. When you come back here, you'll feel as if you're surrounded only by fine gentlemen saluting each other with their top hats :D

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Bars wrote:

And, as you said, gaming forums are a hostile environment as a general rule. If you want a really civilized community, try chess :P

I'm a Go player, but yes, we also tend to be a pretty laid back, esoteric, hippie-minded bunch. ;) Chess, I don't know, I used to read the chess newsgroups on Usenet, some twenty, twenty-five years back, and these people were aggressively competitive with one another! Extremely snarky, on a rather high intellectual level. Civilized, but not civil. Kind of like gaming forums now, really. The type of people who played chess fiercely back then are probably today's Dota and SC2 players.

You're right, though, it's probably best to focus on the positive, and the PoE forums are definitely a much friendlier place now than they were in the first two months after release. (But, and no, I can't resist: the moderation has become more deliberate and focused since! Chris' new policy about hateful posts was a result of the situation.)