Combat is annoying me

"
anubite wrote:
No, it's perfectly okay to tell the OP to go play Diablo 3 when he:

A) says he's primarily a FPS player
B) tells us this game takes no skill
C) demands the game be dumbed down

There are a plethora of games for FPS "gurus" and more than enough ARPGs to cater to this guy.

If he doesn't like POE, that's fine. Not everybody is, or should even, like POE. And it's fine the OP is expressing his 'opinion' but when his opinion is "make the game easier for me because I don't really play ARPGs" then the most obvious, natural, and right reaction is to say, "Go play some other game." Because that effects all of us, when a developer caters to this guy. And it's not wrong for a developer to cater to this kind of person, so they can easily justify dumbing down the game to serve some grander purpose in their eyes. We need to show GGG at every turn we won't stand for that, because that's what every developer does these days. I can't name one which has stuck to their guns about difficulty and "hardcoreiness" - even Dark Souls II is going to be "more accessible" according to its developer.

POE is catering to a minority right now: Hardcore players. The devs can make it as accessible as possible to newcomers up until it infringes upon that very fact. Having spells automatically hit their targets is not gameplay. It's movieplay. It's making me passive and removing a central aspect of the game. If he wants auto-aim and giant numbers jumping up and down on his screen (which quickly become meaningless, even if they have a practical purpose for debugging), then he can play World of Warcraft.

No, it is never OK to attack the person instead of his arguments.
A) him being FPS players is to give background of gaming habits. He also says later he played a fair share of aRPG and other RPGs. That does not give you the right to dismiss his arguments right away. It is for readers to put them into context
B) compared to many FPS, it is true. Well he did over do it with "no skill" statement but it is true that superfast FPS with twitch gameplay where a split second decides a winner take much more skill then aRPGs. Same when compared to a game like Starcraft most FPS take "no skill". If you feel your time spent on PoE makes you a skilled gamer go play Quake Live or Starcraft 2 and come back and tell us how much skill do you really have.
C) He did not demand the game to be dumbed down. He asked for quality of life changes. Same ones that 100 other people asked for before. You can agree or not with him but it is not a reason to go into personal attack (not you but anyone that did so; as I said in my earlier post, on page 1 people were already attacking him personally). And yes telling someone to go play D3 when you opinion of D3 is a shit game is same as telling a kid on the playground to leave your sandbox alone and go play in that nearby dogshit pile. Not a nice thing to do.

Anyways, proper reply is to talk about things one person says unless that person is being rude or insulting from first post and this one didn't. He did start calling people elitist later which was not OK as well. But since moderation on these forums is few and far between I can understand his need to defend himself when people starting attacking him from page 1.

Last edited by Torin#1843 on Dec 10, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
I really, really don't get why people are being so nasty to the OP and giving off such an elitist attitude that is rivaling, and perhaps even surpassing what I see on the Diablo III forums. And not just in this topic but in other topics as well...it seems like some people are so frightened that QoL suggestions made that will in no way 'dumb down' the game will do just that in their mind that they spout unneeded vitriol and scare people away from wanting to post in them. I understand about wanting to keep challenge in the game and all that, but really, that is no excuse for this behavior and if this forum as a whole wants to be seen as being better than its Diablo III equivalent...well...pardon the language but in cases like this, the community is doing a very shitty job at showing that off.

With that said, I read the OP's post and while I personally may not agree with him potentially hinting at 'aim assist' or what have you, I DO agree that the targeting system and hitboxes in this game are bad. I cannot count how many times I have had my cursor hovering over a mob to where it SHOULD be showing the health bar at the top of the screen to indicate that I have the mob targeted and it doesn't. So many times I've had to constantly fiddle-fiddle-fiddle to get it to work and it honestly gets rather annoying. I recently had a friend of mine who has played both Diablo II and III come in and play with me (gave him a beta key) and he chose a Marauder since he loves melee. We played less than five minutes and the first thing that peeved him was the hitboxes and how he was having so much trouble targeting things. He's also a person who hates how abnormally large the HB's are in Diablo III, but he said to me that night, "While I might hate the big hitboxes, at least in Diablo III I can reliably target what I want to hit with my Barbarian."

We played for about 2 hours together and while he loved the gem system, the passive skill tree, and the Marauder in general, he absolutely hated how bad the targeting system was, and I don't blame him. With all that said, it harkens back to the OP's complaint and what I can agree with him on. If he's an FPS player, then he's used to fast twitch gameplay where you need to be accurate with aiming and lining things up. Now, giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, if he has those skills and he's playing a much slower paced game where aiming shouldn't be as big a deal and yet he's having far more problems getting the targeting system to function as it should but isn't...odds are there just might be a problem with the system itself, and it seems that there is and it has been acknowledged. The OP being and FPS player shouldn't be used as a reason to insult...that's childish, petty, and has no business being in a healthy debate. I do agree that the OP might've gone a little overboard with the whole 'skill' issue, but that doesn't devalue his legit gripe.

I also agree with him about having floating health bars over the heads of enemies. This being an option wouldn't 'dumb the game down' by any means, it just gives people another option. Not to mention it also saves you from having to constantly look up at the top of the screen all the time when mousing over enemies if you're trying to pick out a specific one for whatever reason. To follow along with that and the targeting system thing, how about having the cursor CHANGE to something like a sword or another icon that gives you a visual cue to let you know that you indeed have targeted the hitbox of the enemy and thus can attack without having to look up at the top of the screen to see if that big health bar has showed up?
Last edited by Tanakeah#5640 on Dec 10, 2012, 11:40:19 AM
I have now gotten my shadow to lvl 54, and the only enemy that I've had trouble targeting were snakes. But they're fast.

I really don't understand the targeting issue.
I don't have any problems with targeting , it may feel awkward early game when in a group as a ranged class since you cannot always predict where the enemy is (since party members may get aggro constantly) and your attack speed early on is really slow so it is quite funny trying to guess aim where the mob will be whilst in a party early game :)

But I've never had any issues with targeting in this game, can only speak for myself.
"
Tanakeah wrote:
I really, really don't get why people are being so nasty to the OP and giving off such an elitist attitude that is rivaling, and perhaps even surpassing what I see on the Diablo III forums. And not just in this topic but in other topics as well...it seems like some people are so frightened that QoL suggestions made that will in no way 'dumb down' the game will do just that in their mind that they spout unneeded vitriol and scare people away from wanting to post in them. I understand about wanting to keep challenge in the game and all that, but really, that is no excuse for this behavior and if this forum as a whole wants to be seen as being better than its Diablo III equivalent...well...pardon the language but in cases like this, the community is doing a very shitty job at showing that off.

With that said, I read the OP's post and while I personally may not agree with him potentially hinting at 'aim assist' or what have you, I DO agree that the targeting system and hitboxes in this game are bad. I cannot count how many times I have had my cursor hovering over a mob to where it SHOULD be showing the health bar at the top of the screen to indicate that I have the mob targeted and it doesn't. So many times I've had to constantly fiddle-fiddle-fiddle to get it to work and it honestly gets rather annoying. I recently had a friend of mine who has played both Diablo II and III come in and play with me (gave him a beta key) and he chose a Marauder since he loves melee. We played less than five minutes and the first thing that peeved him was the hitboxes and how he was having so much trouble targeting things. He's also a person who hates how abnormally large the HB's are in Diablo III, but he said to me that night, "While I might hate the big hitboxes, at least in Diablo III I can reliably target what I want to hit with my Barbarian."

We played for about 2 hours together and while he loved the gem system, the passive skill tree, and the Marauder in general, he absolutely hated how bad the targeting system was, and I don't blame him. With all that said, it harkens back to the OP's complaint and what I can agree with him on. If he's an FPS player, then he's used to fast twitch gameplay where you need to be accurate with aiming and lining things up. Now, giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, if he has those skills and he's playing a much slower paced game where aiming shouldn't be as big a deal and yet he's having far more problems getting the targeting system to function as it should but isn't...odds are there just might be a problem with the system itself, and it seems that there is and it has been acknowledged. The OP being and FPS player shouldn't be used as a reason to insult...that's childish, petty, and has no business being in a healthy debate. I do agree that the OP might've gone a little overboard with the whole 'skill' issue, but that doesn't devalue his legit gripe.

I also agree with him about having floating health bars over the heads of enemies. This being an option wouldn't 'dumb the game down' by any means, it just gives people another option. Not to mention it also saves you from having to constantly look up at the top of the screen all the time when mousing over enemies if you're trying to pick out a specific one for whatever reason. To follow along with that and the targeting system thing, how about having the cursor CHANGE to something like a sword or another icon that gives you a visual cue to let you know that you indeed have targeted the hitbox of the enemy and thus can attack without having to look up at the top of the screen to see if that big health bar has showed up?


I agree. especially with the elitist attitude around here. I also can't see what's so wrong with what the OP said.
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens
My QoL List: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3279646
If you don't see the initial problem with the original post then you are truely just white knighting him.

To start the thread was nameed "combat is annoying me," right there he contributed nothing constructive. And from that point on in his post he did nothing but claim that path of exile needed this or that. Who is he to say what path of exile needs. The op failed to articulate that his post was a suggestion but rather he made a deceleration of what the game needed to function, talk about irony when he called everyone elitests.

Originally I much like some of you gave him in the benifit of the doubt to come and find out in a diffrent thread that the op is advicating that his sugesstions are what the game needs to succeed.

Being polite is important for sure and a lot of people did start of on the wrong foot, however this thread was poorly articulated from the beginning. The op has the right to voice his opinion all day long but he fails to understand that others have an opinion contrary to his.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
To flip or not to flip

Twitch stream link: http://www.twitch.tv/bled66
Experimenting, solidifying and straight rocking POE.
Last edited by BeyondAnyTherapy#7500 on Dec 10, 2012, 7:46:05 PM
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BeyondAnyTherapy wrote:
If you don't see the initial problem with the original poster in the original post then you are truely just white knighting him.

To start the thread was nameed "combat is annoying me," right there he contributed nothing constructive. And from that point on in his post he did nothing but claim that path of exile needed this or that. Who is he to say what path of exile needs. The op failed to articulate that his post was a suggestion but rather he made a deceleration of what the game needed to function, talk about irony when he called everyone elitests.

Originally I much like some of you gave him in the benifit of the doubt to come and find out in a diffrent thread that the op is advicating that his sugesstions are what the game needs to succeed.

Being polite is important for sure and a lot of people did start of on the wrong foot, however this thread was poorly articulated from the beginning. The op has the right to voice his opinion all day long but he fails to understand that others have an opinion contrary to his.


I am not white-knighting anyone, but I do know from more than a few years of forum moderation experience that not everyone can articulate themselves in the best of ways when they first create a topic. The topic title...so what? If it is truly annoying him, then it is annoying him and it gets his point across in an effective manner and contributes to how he feels. In terms of what he is saying that the game 'needs'...isn't that exactly what many other suggestion threads boil down to? A nerf Hailrake or Oak, better targeting, etc, etc. Does the OP come off as strong? Yes he does, and I've seen him post other threads and in other threads and I do agree that he might be a bit forceful in his approach and could tone it down.

However, in this particular thread and what he brought up that doesn't devalue what he said. Nor does it devalue what he thinks the game should/shouldn't have. This thread wasn't poorly articulated by any means, it just was presented in a manner that got you and others prickled up far too quickly because you saw certain trigger things like 'I am an FPS player', and others and immediately started stereotyping him and blew him off. Again, I see nothing wrong with his suggestions because they are suggestions regardless of how strong/weak he presented them.
Last edited by Tanakeah#5640 on Dec 10, 2012, 7:52:53 PM
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anubite wrote:
No, it's perfectly ...
POE is catering to a minority right now: Hardcore players. The devs can make it as accessible as possible to newcomers up until it infringes upon that very fact. Having spells automatically hit their targets is not gameplay. It's movieplay. It's making me passive and removing a central aspect of the game. If he wants auto-aim and giant numbers jumping up and down on his screen (which quickly become meaningless, even if they have a practical purpose for debugging), then he can play World of Warcraft.


*shivers in fear about the possibility*

And i have absolutely no problem with targeting. Maybe another ping/spike related issue? Strange...
Last edited by Visuv#1278 on Dec 10, 2012, 8:00:53 PM
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Tanakeah wrote:
I am not white-knighting anyone, but I do know from more than a few years of forum moderation experience that not everyone can articulate themselves in the best of ways when they first create a topic. The topic title...so what? If it is truly annoying him, then it is annoying him and it gets his point across in an effective manner and contributes to how he feels. In terms of what he is saying that the game 'needs'...isn't that exactly what many other suggestion threads boil down to? A nerf Hailrake or Oak, better targeting, etc, etc. Does the OP come off as strong? Yes he does, and I've seen him post other threads and in other threads and I do agree that he might be a bit forceful in his approach and could tone it down.

However, in this particular thread and what he brought up that doesn't devalue what he said. Nor does it devalue what he thinks the game should/shouldn't have. This thread wasn't poorly articulated by any means, it just was presented in a manner that got you and others prickled up far too quickly because you saw certain trigger things like 'I am an FPS player', and others and immediately started stereotyping him and blew him off. Again, I see nothing wrong with his suggestions because they are suggestions regardless of how strong/weak he presented them.


Here is the thing the internet has this whole anonymity thing so posting i was or am (insert claim here), really holds no value. Generally though i take people for their word, however i am even more skeptical of people who can not support arguments with valid facts and use I'm (insert claim here) to validate their claims.

also lets stick to the thread at hand, just because there are other threads on the front index page that are done in bad form does not make this one or any other one right.

As you state the OP comes off strong here you are trying to, what i call "sugar coat the turd." No matter how you want to word this the poster did not articulate his views well at all. For you to chose a side outright and defend that side means (unless you state otherwise) you validate that person completely. So i find it funny that you state the OP came off strong and was too forceful (then absolve him), yet everyone else who responds in the same rhetoric is damned. I would not just call you out for white-knighting for no reason, you chose a side defended that side and then contradicted yourself, that screams white-knighting.

I apologies if any of this offends you however this is the first game in a long time i have personally felt strongly about. To see toxic posts like the OP was extremely off putting and i would rather this behavior not be rationalized or supported. I want to stress please do not think i mean white-knighting in the derogatory fashion.

Edit: forewarning my spelling and grammar are not perfect so please refrain from using that as a defense or support to claims. Thank you.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
To flip or not to flip

Twitch stream link: http://www.twitch.tv/bled66
Experimenting, solidifying and straight rocking POE.
Last edited by BeyondAnyTherapy#7500 on Dec 10, 2012, 9:07:01 PM
"
BeyondAnyTherapy wrote:
Here is the thing the internet has this whole anonymity thing so posting i was or am (insert claim here), really holds no value. Generally though i take people for their word, however i am even more skeptical of people who can not support arguments with valid facts and use I'm (insert claim here) to validate their claims.

also lets stick to the thread at hand, just because there are other threads on the front index page that are done in bad form does not make this one or any other one right.

As you state the OP comes off strong here you are trying to, what i call "sugar coat the turd." No matter how you want to word this the poster did not articulate his views well at all. For you to chose a side outright and defend that side means (unless you state otherwise) you validate that person completely. So i find it funny that you state the OP came off strong and was too forceful (then absolve him), yet everyone else who responds in the same rhetoric is damned. I would not just call you out for white-knighting for no reason, you chose a side defended that side and then contradicted yourself, that screams white-knighting.

I apologies if any of this offends you however this is the first game in a long time i have personally felt strongly about. To see toxic posts like the OP was extremely off putting and i would rather this behavior not be rationalized or supported.

Edit: forewarning my spelling and grammar are not perfect so please refrain from using that as a defense or support to claims. Thank you.


I do not call people out on their spelling or grammar because like I said, as a previous moderator I know that everyone makes mistakes and I clearly understand what you are saying...I dislike grammar police personally just so you know for future reference. :) I am also not offended at all because again...been there, done that, have plenty of thick skin and I've had far worse things flung my way on game forums. :)

As far as me calling others out with being too forceful, let's go back to the fact that we are talking about the first post he made in this thread. Compared to some other things that people have posted, his post is quite tame and there really isn't anything wrong with it. I haven't contradicted anything that I have said when you look at it and compare it to what others have responded. Because I defend a side doesn't mean I am 'white knighting' him...I could very well say the same thing about you defending the side that is condoning him and being quite rude about doing it, and that would be 'white knighting' as you say it, just for the other side. I am defending him because from my point of view I am having some of the same problems he is, and I know others are as well. I also stated that I DID NOT agree with his idea for 'aim assist' so I am not 'white knighting' (as you say) him totally. I am just agreeing with his stance.

Also, I think you are twisting my words just a little bit here, so let me clarify. The OP constructed his post with some 'strong language' and he did it in a way that might seem a bit more forceful and 'demanding', but again that doesn't make his suggestions any less valid. I am not 'sugar coating a turd' as you say, because the OP's post isn't a turd in the first place. It seems from my perspective that you have taken issue with this and you sort of said that as much with how strongly you feel about the game. In fact, I think your strong feelings for this game clouded your judgment a little bit and you took the OP's post a little too much to heart. Take a step back and look at it again and set your feelings aside just for a little bit and you might see it differently. Regardless of that, however, my point still stands...the OP's post was fine, but some of the responses he got were not warranted to the level of vitriol that he got.

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