If life was back to CB levels...

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

Seriously though, what would a good ratio of HP to ES be these days?

4k Life to 6k ES (the same as saying 2:3)

What sort of investment would you need for 4k HP vs 6k ES atm? Considering the life nerf, that still seems like incredibly high investment just to get to 4k HP. I have a pretty good idea about the HP side of the coin, but I can't speak about ES.

Barely anything to get to 6k ES. When you run CI with full end game gear you will probably hit something like 12k if you really want to (thats without the shitty nodes in the center)

Doesnt change the fact that a 2:3 ratio is completely unrealistic considering that life based builds get 5%+ hps and a lot of armor for free.

There are multiple ways to talk about this issue.

There's "what should the ratio be between life and es when both people are going for the maximum?"
There's "what should the maximum be in relation to enemy damage?"
There's "what should the minimum be in relation to enemy damage?"
There's (related to the above) "what should be the range from minimum to maximum?"

Ultimately, there's "how much investment should be required so that enemy damage is survivable?", with various discussions on how to define survivable (usually in terms of regeneration/leech/lgoh/flasks for extended combat and max values for burst damage).

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

Seriously though, what would a good ratio of HP to ES be these days?

Which type of ES?:
- CI maximum ES?
- Shav's + low-life affixes ES?
- Hybrid life + ES (biggest buffer possible)?
- CI non-maximum ES with hybrid armors (for use with Aegis Aurora on the armor side, Ondar's Guile on the evasion side)?

There is only two types of life to compare against, max+armor and max+evasion. Anything less than max is suicide currently, since the minimum for life is well below survivability and the maximum is at or barely above it. (With Kaom's you can opt for something other than max.)

ITT we've mostly been talking about the common case of maxlife+armor v. CI-max-ES, in which case 2:3 is about right given how similarly the two behave (they both leech (GR), they both regen (ZO)). The only differences are that CI gets on-full-life offensive/defensive affixes and out of combat regeneration and life gets blood magic offensively, instant flasks defensively, and armor defensively (though GraceDetIR, Granites, and Endurance Charges make armor pretty unimportant past the base-line armor that everyone has access to).

However that ratio is implemented depends on enemy damage. If enemy damage is too high to be survivable at 3k life, raise life. If enemy damage is easily survivable with trivial investment at 6k es, then lower ES. The ratio is orthogonal.

It used to be the case that CI was much weaker than life to status effects, but Grounding/Staunching flasks were added as well as Auxium to the things that already existed (Fairgrave's hat, Dream Frags, Alpha's Howl, Chayula) so it's an inconvenience for ES but not something it has no choice but to plan for.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

Doesnt change the fact that a 2:3 ratio is completely unrealistic considering that life based builds get 5%+ hps and a lot of armor for free.

Bullshit

Don't bother responding to him. His post history speaks for itself.

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

Barely anything to get to 6k ES. When you run CI with full end game gear you will probably hit something like 12k if you really want to (thats without the shitty nodes in the center)

Doesnt change the fact that a 2:3 ratio is completely unrealistic considering that life based builds get 5%+ hps and a lot of armor for free.

I must've missed something since the last time I played, free armour? I remember having numerous 2h builds with less than 1k armour even at level 70+.

Life is a prefix. And what do you roll life on? AR/ER items that give you armor aka physical resistance. ES on the other hand only gives you "life". Its way more but still, you pretty damn prone to physical damage because you, unless you heavily invest into it, barely have any reduction.

People love to ignore that and act like ES and Life should basically be pretty near to each other yet they seem to have no idea what armor actually does for them.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

Doesnt change the fact that a 2:3 ratio is completely unrealistic considering that life based builds get 5%+ hps and a lot of armor for free.

Bullshit

- easier access to Endurance Charges
- easier access to HPS
- free armour

Guys guys its bullshit.