Stash Pages Cost... (info from Kripp Streams)

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iamstryker wrote:

The stash tab issue does not worry me nearly as much as the trade system. This game is being advertised all over as a game where you only pay for cosmetics. I find it a little strange that they are selling a trade system. But it probably won't be an issue since the free trading system will work just fine.

I think it's a huge issue. They advertised the trade system, saying it's gonna be awesome. Now they say you need to pay for it :o.

Why not make a special trade tab for all players, with the size of let's say half inventory - so everyone can use this awesome innovative trade system?

No, you need to pay to even try out this trade system.

Bullshit.

Is there an actual explanation of how this is going to be implimented or are ppl just taking a small comment and making up scenarios to be unhappy about?

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AlteraxPoe wrote:

Is there an actual explanation of how this is going to be implimented or are ppl just taking a small comment and making up scenarios to be unhappy about?

Pretty much this :p

Free stuff? Well fuck you sir!


EDIT: I know one more game that is completely free and isnt selling power and actually rips you off for huge amount of money and ppl are OK with it. The game is called......... League of Legends.
Also i know a game that isnt free to play and still requires you to pay to get the "good stuff". That game is called diablo3.
Not to mention games like CoD that come out every year as if they are f-ing PES, and still require you to pay for extra maps and guns.
What ever GGG decides to sell for real money, it will be ok since it wont be required to play. I dont care about trading, I dont even think I will play in parties. And i can spend few $ for some stash tabs.

Ppl are greedy and you are OK with that, but the moment someone gives you free stuff you start complaining?

For what little it's worth, because everyone has their own idea of what's reasonable to pay for what and nothing in this thread is likely to change that idea, I'll give my view of f2p games and their stores.

F2p games are generally supported by a very small percentage of the total user base, but every single user costs the developers for every second of game time. Costs can be measured in bandwidth, storage requirements, cpu usage, support, and so on. In order to make use of these services, I feel that I should contribute something but whether I call it a donation, a tip, support, or simply payment for services rendered is really irrelevant. I certainly take little exception to tipping waitresses, hair dressers, and such each and every time I make use of their services so why would support for my online entertainment services be different?

So, I established that, because I can, I have to pay something or feel guilty for leeching service. But what should I get in return? Well.. I should be able to keep playing the game. That is to say, I should get nothing else. In fact, anything else that I get is a bonus or, perhaps, a thanks for the support that I could have chosen not to give. I didn't get the Gold Supporter package for any of the items or the points.. I got it strictly because I felt that PoE and the devs deserve it. (If you can't support GGG for whatever reason, be friendly, don't worry about it, and have fun.. we've got your back.)

Now, I talk of paying for service only to highlight the ethical side of things as I see it, but that's not why I supported GGG. I actually like supporting quality initiatives when I can. This includes buying albums, sheet music, and such from up and coming YouTube or street artists and, in this case, a very well designed game run by devs who interact exceptionally well with their community.

The nature of items in the store is of secondary concern to me after deciding that a game is worth supporting. I can live with anything, if the game is good, but feel that P2W is bad - I think this was one of the biggest design flaws in a game I co-designed and ran for three years (it created lasting rifts and resentment in the community, not toward us so much as to those most supporting the game). Even the cost of items, if the game is good, is irrelevant given that they're just there as a bonus for my support (as mentioned above).

I'm thrilled that PoE's store is to be cosmetic only, or as near as can be managed. Some convenience items may be borderline P2W but, in general, I think it's nothing to be concerned about unless GGG started selling the likes of perfect/custom rares or currency items and I highly doubt we'll ever see them in the store.

As for stash tab prices, whatever they end up being is irrelevant except as a deterrent to having "too many". People will fill as many tabs as they can get and always want more. The higher the price, the less tabs more people will have. Deterrents didn't go over too well in my game and we eventually removed them, but as stash tabs and their customization are likely a primary source of income for GGG they shouldn't be priced too low.

This brings me to ultra rare items. There should be at least a few items in the store that cost hundreds of dollars. The addition of these items will turn heads and cause posts claiming GGG greed but such posts are unfair and completely miss the point. Why the high price? It guarantees that there will be very few in game and collecting/showing rare items is fun (and it's also neat for the rest of us to see the Diamond Kiwi in town from time to time, right?). Also, someone is almost guaranteed to happily buy at least one and that support benefits everyone. These items could be pets (or even just a different colouring of an existing pet), a dye colour not otherwise available, a very distinctive skill effect, or anything that might interest someone. I remember having a very rare Hyacinth Macaw drop in WoW years ago when few people had one.. it had the same model as the rest of the parrots but the colouring was awesome and it was fun to drag around.

Yes, I said a different colour for hundreds of dollars. Practically zero development effort for hundreds of dollars. (Pure white in UO? Or better yet, the monocle in EVE?) I think the development effort involved in an item should have little to do with the cost of the item at least in the cases where little development effort is involved - by all means charge extra for those items requiring a great deal of effort. This means that the cosmetic renaming of a tab (little development effort) could cost 5 points or 500 points and I'd be fine with that. I would just buy fewer at 500 points. It also means that a new character skin shouldn't be 5 points.

I think some unhappiness with f2p stores comes from wanting everything all at once but finding that it adds up to more than you can justify spending and/or feeling entitled* to certain things. Anytime you think something should be part of the default client, you're wrong. It could be if GGG chooses it to be. UI tweaks are just as cosmetic in nature as skill effect tweaks. But instead of getting things all at once, budget so much money per month (perhaps skip a $5 coffee or two at Starbucks and give it to GGG?) and put it towards something in the store. Start out with the things you want most but, after a while, you'll have more than you feel you really need. Patience..

Ultimately, GGG needs to charge something for the items they put in the store. Be grateful for what you are given and know that you're paying not so much for the store items as for the privilege of playing the game and the quality support you receive while doing so - this is where the most value resides. Prices you feel are set too high aren't set out of greed, it's just your opinion that they're set too high.

Everyone has their own maximum entertainment budget and their happiness is determined by what they can get within that budget relative to what they desire. The hard part is figuring out how to maximize both happiness across the community and income. Give GGG a chance to figure this out and then give constructive feedback if you feel the need.

TL;DR: Sorry for the book. :)

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*This term has turned into a greatly abused meme of late to the point of not having any meaning in some contexts.. I therefore use it as sparingly as possible, don't use it lightly here, and I see such in posts above.

there should be one preview Public Stash Tab for everyone.

Maybe like this:

Every1 has one Public Stash tab which is only half as big as a normal Public Stash tab. This is the "preview" public stash tab.

When you now buy an extra Public Stash tab your "preview" tab will get a normal big Public tab and u get a second public tab.

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iamstryker wrote:

The stash tab issue does not worry me nearly as much as the trade system. This game is being advertised all over as a game where you only pay for cosmetics. I find it a little strange that they are selling a trade system. But it probably won't be an issue since the free trading system will work just fine.

There is the argument that its all for convenience. My question is will all of this convenience ever give players an advantage over others? If any of these microtransactions do give players some kind of an advantage then there will always be someone arguing that its pay2win.

The convenience of easier trading through a web interface, or being able to store more items in a named stash page would NOT provide an IN-GAME advantage. That's what "P2W" refers to: IN-GAME advantages.

I can't wait to see whats in the "store". I have played the game with several characters and with 4 tabs it works just fine.

There will always be "tight asses" in life who don't wanna pay for anything anywhere anytime. We all paid $60 for that "other game" and look what it got ya.

This game is free, plain and simple. If it was me and my company you would of paid $60 for it. Will I support this game? Hell yea! I would of paid $60 for it easily but this gives me $60 for microtransactions instead.

Nothing is "free" in life people.

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BJSV wrote:

Free stuff? Well fuck you sir!


EDIT: I know one more game that is completely free and isnt selling power and actually rips you off for huge amount of money and ppl are OK with it. The game is called......... League of Legends.

But that game, at least you could see the angle that the developer could use to pitch it to potential investors...

Ok, so we have this rts/tower defense game with persistent characters.
"yeah, but how am I going to make money off it?..."
Well we build it around this rock-paper-scissors metageme. Then we give the players rock, and offer them the option of buying paper and scissors. Then we introduce dynamite, and [bucket of water] and so on...

That type of thing seems to me like it would have more investor appeal than a game where you only buy convenience. Or more accurately, in LoL you have the option of buying the convenience of leveling speed. In PoE you are buying in-game features of convenience. That is also technically buying a convenience, but of a different sort.

@Durentis

well said

i play Eve too...i must have a hundred different containers spread over a dozen systems, with up to a half hour real time travel between them...
a centralized stash?...that would be worth billions!
i would buy that on top of my sub...lol

storage or character slots is probably a major cash intake for almost all F2P games...and if i enjoy the game play, i don't mind at all...and i did enjoy the july stress test

to see the extent to which an independent developer is even being compared to the Diablo franchise is just remarkable

sadly, i don't even have the cash to get in the beta right now...but when i do, i can guarantee they will have my monetary support...key or no key

cent+cent