What's wrong with deterministic crafting?
|
I disagree, there is a clear cut right and wrong here based on the objective facts of the subject. Its pretty clear to me there are fake, bad actors advocating for crafting power creep (more than there already is), selfish individuals who care about nothing more than indulging in themselves and their wants but then will turn around and wonder why the game is shit and soo boring. Parasites that ruin games, great example is World of Warcraft. This exact scenario has already played out in multiple games to know where it leads to when you cater to these people.
An action RPG where the majority of time is spent farming fucking eggs isnt fun. Why ? Because Harvest literally offers the best of everything, thats an objective fact. Theres no reason to complain about its current existence, in fact theres more negative connotations associated with it than positives. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. |
|
" Just like, I don't know, every other league, you have to kill mobs to receive your reward. For Blight it's oils, for Metamorph it's catalysts, etc. For Harvest, it's crafts. It's no more free for Harvest, than it is for every league. " Some few could be obtained deterministically. But most are weighted chances (AKA, RNG). " I wasn't playing by the time that was around, so I'll take your word for it. " The most efficient way of obtaining gear is trade. You just have to whisper someone and buy what you want. There's no process involved, no game mechanic interaction, no effort. |
|
"No its not, thats a garbage comparison. No league mod does what harvest does, not even remotely close. Look at all the mod roll weighting when using standard currency crafting. Depending on the mod you can be, on average, looking at 400-4k alterations. Thats not including augment orbs or regal orbs. Look at the currency rates. I literally just broken this down a few pages ago but based off alterations alone youre looking at 400+ to see a specific roll, this value goes up depending on the modifier (like T1 Physical %). At a rate of around 4.5 Alterations PER CHAOS ORB, youre looking at an average of 88~ Chaos orbs in order to see that modifier roll (this goes up obviously based on the modifier. If it was T1 Physical youd be looking at an absurd rate comparatively). THATS NOT COUNTING the fact that in ideal situations you want a good augment AND a good regal, however in the correct scenario a good regal is good enough because you can scrub it. Harvest cuts out a MASSIVE amount of RNG. By deterministically allow you to pick most modifiers, at NO COST OF CURRENCY TO YOU. On top of this, you generally get anywhere from 3-5 potential rolls per seed, up to four total seeds. Thats 15-20 deterministic rolls with NO CURRENCY COST TO YOU. Are you really going to sit here and use such shit logic when you can mathematically figure out the value of harvest by taking weightings, currency prices and comparing them ? I was being OVERLY generous when i said 30 chaos in value of Harvest crafts in a previous post just to be a little nice, in actuality, its potentially thousands of Chaos orbs in value per Harvest. So riddle me this, youre saying its the "same" when it clearly isnt, then saying "it isnt the best way to get gear", when it VERY clearly is if you know how to craft ? Let me be very clear when saying this, MOST influence mods share mod pools with other influence mods which is why it is easy to deterministically craft them. Hunter for example is life based on its prefixes. EVERY SINGLE INFLUENCE that you would want on a Hunters chest piece for a prefix can be used rolling the same Harvest life Modifier, just like EVERY SINGLE INFLUENCE suffix youd want can be rolled with a crit modifier Harvest. Now, take into consideration once again the currency values, mod pool weights, etc i just gave you. The pure amount of currency you save by utilizing harvest correctly. Are we really going to sit here and pretend that "its the same as other leagues" and "the crafting cost is too expensive for meta crafting perfect pieces" when you save that kind of currency by using it ? TLDR - You guys dont understand how strong Harvest actually is and the amount of pure currency saved by comparison of traditional methods you save by utilizing a free deterministic crafting method cutting out the large majority of RNG, while also complaining that its too expensive. Its laughable.
Spoiler
I didnt even go into crafting Clusters/Abyssal or Jewels either.
Edit - They should remove harvest for a league and let people try to craft their items the traditional way. Maybe thatll put things into a better perspective for those complaining about the current state of harvest. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 7:58:31 PM
|
|
" Very good post :) I'll take your advice. Thank you! |
|
" " " OK, dude. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
|
|
|
Is there any reason why harvest crafts cannot be converted to drops.
Given the fact that there are complaints about bosses not dropping anything worthwhile, why not add crafts as drop to the end game boss pool. Gating them behind high level content makes farming bosses viable again and negates a lot of the arguments that have been made about harvest being broken. I recognise that some may say that this will just further exacerbate the power imbalance between top end players and others, but if you are someone farming maven and the feared as opposed to alching and going yellow maps it doesn’t feel unreasonable to expect a power differential. Personally I am an alch and go person but I understand why top percentile players are pissed. |
|
" Hmm sometimes thats true, but earlier in the thread I learned a lot from Veennto's point of view, even though it was opposite of mine. In that instance, I was convinced that for their gameplay, the recent changes were a significant benefit. All it takes is two rational people who can communicate clearly. |
|
"Wouldnt be the worst idea but at the same time it is. A big reason why they cant create awesome, powerful, niche uniques these days is likely due to the fact of Harvest and Influence modifiers existing. It become very difficult to justify dropping rare slots these days due to them. Arguably this applies to Aisling unveil crafting as well, her unveils have insane power. In order for GGG to introduce better uniques they either need to... Nerf Harvest/Influences, or buff monsters AGAIN. If they buff monsters again soo many builds which are already struggling are going to be dead in this DPS EHP Meta. That or they will gate those uniques by ridiculous drop rates or gating, which isnt ideal whatsoever. Chase uniques are fine but generally its an expectation that they add in cool new ones every league. That gets hard to do when crafting is as good as it is. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 8:08:23 PM
|
|
" OK, so talking about min-maxing devolved to "good enough". Will remember that... It's not a question of the quality of the "good enough" items that can be hit in 50 EX, or 150 EX if you really are unlucky and RNG "HATES YOU"... It's actually the problem that PoE has regarding properly implementing ANY mechanic and balancing it. We all remember GGG's stance back in the day that level 100 "would be hit in years"... They overvalued their difficulty and implementation and were dazzled when it was hit in merely MONTHS. They went and conceded their stance, but didn't address the problem properly, and instead of MAKING 100 a LEGIT CHASE GOAL that can be obtained via HIGH END GAME content in a "timely manner" or having it obtainable via easier content in years, they lost confidence in their capacity to balance and provided more and more "cheat ways" that overly reward "easier than intended content"... Just like their "sublime", yet inexistent capability regarding balancing multipliers, no other game has the same system of additive and multiplicative PITAs, and while "FUN" in PoE, it also keeps the game in a "broken state" BECAUSE OF TENCENTGGG'S INABILITY TO ALSO IMPLEMENT PROPER DIMINISHING RETURNS PAST A SOFT POINT. Why would we expect "deterministic crafting" to be different??? Harvest was, and still is OP. It's not about that. It's about making the Harvest system more convoluted and time consuming than it should have been in a PROPER IMPLEMENTATION where TencentGGG should have simply INTERLINKED DIFFICULTY AND REWARD RATIOS, like any sane game does... That is the main aspect ANY OTHER GAME DOES BETTER, it pushes it's players to EVOLVE AND IMPROVE OVER TIME. That's missing in PoE, due to TencentGGG stubbornness and "know it better" attitude... Harvest could, and should be improved, but they're afraid of doing just that, because they didn't made their mind about the best way to acquisition an "end game" item. Ideally, you should grind for that base, grab and improve it to the point where you either use it yourself versus said "high end game" content or simply trade it for a different or even a more powerful item (via converting it to raw currency)... But that should always start with you PLAYING THE DAMN GAME VERSUS THE END GAME CONTENT, not simply bypassing it ALL with the help of TRADE AND/OR CRAFTING... THAT IS THE CORE PROBLEM TO BE ADDRESSED... Afterwards, they can set the limits of the "deterministic crafting" systems in the game. Remember, bench crafts don't apply above T3 mods for that reason => they are GUARANTEED CERTAIN OUTCOMES, compared to the RNG GAMBLING CRAFTS OF HARVEST that require you to lock and reroll until satisfied with an outcome... PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"... Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days... Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Jul 1, 2021, 1:46:56 PM
|
|
" That's also a communication strategy in an argument: Be so far out on one side of the argument that any "agreement" must be lopsided to your side of the argument. In any case, can you tell me just one thing: In what way, if any, is using Harvest crafts (that you have to find) for crafting more or less "free" than using Exalted Orbs (that you have to find) for crafting? Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
|
|
