What's wrong with deterministic crafting?
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what he's getting at is prefix/suffix can't be changed a specific mod chaos spam will automatically give you the associated mod like a targeted exalt.
Its more expensive than he's making out, but its cheaper than people think it is if you know how to target/block. Crafting gears always like that though, you pay a premium for somebody else to make your gear its almost always cheaper to do so yourself. It is however extremely counterintuitive to have a patch note disabling targeted exalts for influence gear when there is a backdoor to get them anyway, this is one of those knowledge taxes that GGG like to levy on the playerbase. I pretty much agree with tinfoil's general view though you don't need all T1's and harvest is still more powerful than the general populace thinks it is.... But it feels bad in its current incarnation, too many hoops to jump through and not enough excitement about what you'll get. A fact highlighted by the most useful mods being the most common ones (reforges, socket colours etc) whereas the rare ones are more restricted and you never see them. Last edited by Draegnarrr#2823 on Jun 30, 2021, 10:37:02 AM
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Yep, basically this is my TL;DR.
Harvest is plenty good enough in crafting reasonably good pieces of gear. If you want to craft better than that then there should absolutely be a premium associated with that whether it be your time or currency. Fact of the matter is, Harvest is FREE. The amount of currency youd spend by comparison of deterministically rolling for it via harvest is exponential. I can tell you right now certain mods can cost upwards of 400 alterations to see (this is thanks to the existence of Harvest, mod weights obviously take that into account now which is why its harder to roll by hand). According to trade right now, youre looking at 1:4, Chaos v Alts. You do the math for the currency conversions and mod weights. You save a ridiculous amount of currency by utilizing Harvest as is. People dont care at looking at the bigger, more whole picture. Theres a very clear cut reason Harvest works as it does now, because legacy mods were too strong. That doesnt mean Harvest "sucks and isnt worth using" as much as others and streamers love to parrot that laughably wrong idea. Also imo, augs arent as rare as people are claiming either, i think people are overestimating the amount theyre running harvest or getting it in the appropriate area for better rates. Multi augs just from like 10~ or soo harvests last night. Maybe im just "lucky" but ive found plenty of augs throughout the league.
Spoiler
  Very last part is personally my opinion though but GGG has actual numbers so they can decide if its too rare or not. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 10:57:10 AM
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Tin_Foil_Hat
1 - Your items were FAR from maxxed, they were fine, but not great. Hence your argument has no bearing on the previous conversation about min/maxxing. Perhaps it is you that doesnt understand how to craft min maxxed items? Not an insult, just an observation. To truly max, you are buying a significant number of crafts. That's where the 50ex comes in, and as the previous poster (who was against Harvest) agreed, you probably would spend WAY more than that. 2 - You say meaningless things like "what people are entitled to". But this is a game, not human rights. No one is 'entitled' to anything. The servers could go off forever, right now, and PoE could be gone, and no one is entitled to play. Similarly they could give you 100% invulnerability and 100 billion dps, and again no one would be 'entitled' to complain about that either. This is a game, this is something people play for fun. The arguments here, which you seem to have missed, is that many players do not find gamble crafting fun. Using words like 'players are entitled to / not entitled to" is non-sensical. By that I don't mean bad or I disagree, I mean it literally makes no sense. 3 - Your core argument is Harvest is strong enough for players to beat the game, and so doesn't need to be better. Again, you can beat the game without any Harvest at all, and you can also beat Sirus AL9 with no passive tree points spent, and you can beat him using autoattack (all of this is on youtube). Again, you refer back to arguments of how hard the game is, not whether players want to gamble or not when they craft. The difficulty part makes no sense, but again you can beat the game without Harvest at all. 4 - Lastly, what you aren't addressing -Harvest could have been changed in 100 other ways to prevent the worst abuse without impacting the playerbase who were crafting for the first time, and not making overly powered items. It appears to be nerfed for everyone to control the top tier crafters. ie. game is catered to them. -Ignoring Harvest entirely, at least some significant portion of the playerbase hates gamble-crafting, and enjoyed some form of deterministic crafting. In this sense, you could remove Harvest, but GGG didn't replace it with anything but more gamble-crafts. Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Jun 30, 2021, 12:18:57 PM
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" I mean I had 6 90+ characters this league never skipped a harvest and didn't get a single aug - I didn't spec my regions for harvest though. they probably are as rare as people are claiming its like the trialmaster spawn rate, or fuses, are some people bullshitting? Absolutely, but some players will just get screwed by any low % chance relentlessly. |
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"LOL what a stupid statement. "Your items are good but not great" AKA your items arent multi-tier1. My argument is perfectly sound. I literally just said how top rolled items are made, seems you glazed over that in a stupor. "Im not having fun because i cant make free perfectly crafted items without spending any currency" is your literal argument. Not a single one of you have presented any sort of counter argument to mine. Probably because there isnt one. Harvest can be changed in other ways ? No it couldnt stop fooling yourself. This community is entitled, dont act like it isnt. Want me to pull up all the crying when COC/ST got their nerfs ? LOL Edit - Do you know why Original MAster crafting existed ? It existed in order to fulfill a role of being able to craft a mediocre item deterministically. Do you know why OG master crafting was originally removed ? Its literally for the same reason harvest was changed. Made crafting too easy and the end all be all. Deterministic crafting should never lead the outcome of top tier items, it SHOULD be a building block to progress from bad gear into good gear, not bad gear into perfect gear. Also pretty confused how you can say "if harvest is removed nothing can replace it". If harvest was removed itd fix mod pool weighting and chaos spam and actual currency crafting would be a thing again, followed by utilizing deterministic crafts via essence, fossils. Mastercrafting fills in a lot of voids and so do the unveil crafts. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 3:07:10 PM
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"Ive leveled two characters soo far in ultimatum, probably gotten around 20+, level 98, 93. Augments should be rare, because they deterministically craft unlike actual exalted orbs. Seems like a lot people are forgetting why they removed the Eternal orb. Harvest is literally free Eternal crafting hence why they removed legacy crafts, it was too easy. Eternals were removed because they made crafting too easy. Harvest carries many Eternal-like crafting abilities inherently and it isnt a punishing crafting system at all like standard currency crafting. Anyways, my final statement for this thread is this. Harvest is fine as is and fulfills its role in the crafting system by offering good, cheap, deterministic crafting outcomes. Anyone who says other wise doesnt know what theyre talking about.
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And personally if you ask me id go as far as saying its too strong still but thats my personal opinion.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 3:11:42 PM
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the only thing "wrong" with it is that PoE didn't have it before Harvest. Harvest was the fluke, not the fact that we got to choose how to craft for a brief league or two
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"See im genuinely curious how it went core in the first place, and the fact that, that league existed in the first place. From a designers perspective it goes against everything theyve stated prior, especially after removing Eternal Orbs.
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But hey i guess thats just an old timers POV. But my opinion is they are pretty shaky when it comes to their own design philosophies now, it seems. Harvest goes against the Eternal Orb removed, OG Mastercraft changes/removal and their reasonings for those changes. Yet here we are with Harvest in core.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 3:16:34 PM
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" Wow. I am happy I don't suffer from your lack of imagination. But that might explain why you are having such difficulties understanding other peoples point of view. In any case, the discussion was indeed about min-maxed items, and the items you listed are anything but. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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"The items are min maxed, they just arent PERFECT. Good try though mate. Looking forward to your next excuse. Edit - BTW judging based off your other posts in here its pretty clear you dont actually know how harvest works and how to craft your own items which is probably why youre complaining about it. Just off your first post in this thread in general you claim its not deterministic which is completely false. " This statement alone proves you dont know what youre talking about. Anywho, im done arguing here. Your arguments arent going to convince any reasonably minded individuals that harvest isnt perfectly fine as is. Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in! Labyrinth salt farm miner. "But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years. Last edited by Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 on Jun 30, 2021, 3:52:40 PM
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