What's wrong with deterministic crafting?

This is just my opinion obviously but I think the RNG is needed because otherwise the economy will be messed up. We have such difficulty in crafting amazing items that most of us(I assume) dont do it yet here we are each league with streamers/great players that know what they are doing that manage to craft 30 mirror worth of items left and right.

It is not the idea to increase the difficutly of the game because there are some builds out there that shit on it with 3c worth of unique items because once again the great players know what they are doing. (I played Zizarans poison blade blast build and with a fucking 4 link I was shitting on A6 Sirus)

It is about the satisfaction of you trying day after day to get that amazing item that you know you made with hard work and it shits on almost everything others use.

Again that is just my opinion on this.

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trixxar wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

50 ex is nothing for a 6x t1 item. Thats like 1/10th of a mirror.

Exactly, thank you.

So a build which is a 'joke' to make is 500ex?

Thats my point on hyperbole.

Yes, Harvest made great items easier than ever before for min maxxers who were likely already doing 100M+ dps.

However, for most players, even a single item maxed is not achievable given their play time/style, much less a build.

GGG sided with the min/maxxers and stomped everyone else with no regard, just like they did with streamer preference on launch.

I don't really see how they could have done a worse job on showing anyone but streamers/maxxers that the game doesn't care about their business.

500 ex for a fully maxed all 6x t1 items is a hell of a joke. Mirrors are what? 800 ex now?

If you feel the need to play with 6x t1 items then thats your problem, not the game.

"

trixxar wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

50 ex is nothing for a 6x t1 item. Thats like 1/10th of a mirror.

Exactly, thank you.

So a build which is a 'joke' to make is 500ex?

Thats my point on hyperbole.

Yes, Harvest made great items easier than ever before for min maxxers who were likely already doing 100M+ dps.

However, for most players, even a single item maxed is not achievable given their play time/style, much less a build.

GGG sided with the min/maxxers and stomped everyone else with no regard, just like they did with streamer preference on launch.

I don't really see how they could have done a worse job on showing anyone but streamers/maxxers that the game doesn't care about their business.

No, you just dont know how to craft.

Also it definitely doesnt cost anywhere near 50 exalts to make a piece of gear, harvest has no entry or exit fee, literally all crafts inside harvest are free. Youre literally being handed deterministic crafting options FREE of charge and complaining about it as if youre spending your own currency to utilize it LOL.

Edit - Perfect example of how stupid this shit is. Made this with 3 exalts, 1 prefixes cannot be changed and 1 slam. Slam was dog shit 36 armour but it doesnt matter because the other prefixes and the other rolls and the unveil craft.



6L done with adding unveil mod for extra quality, around 50 jeweler orbs and 400 fusings for the 6L.

I have other pieces i can do still too.



Scrub the craft, craft a shit suffix. Slam it a couple times to fill out the prefix. Prefixes cannot be changed > Harvest critical strike craft. Disgusting survivability EV chest with inc crit. Ideal world id have the regen, flat life and %life but thats unrealistic for budget though certainly possible if you spam enough life harvests. Cost if i wanted to craft that piece, probably 4 exalts total plus whatever it take to 6L it. No where near 50ex.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Spoiler

"

trixxar wrote:

"

Krayken wrote:

50 ex is nothing for a 6x t1 item. Thats like 1/10th of a mirror.

Exactly, thank you.

So a build which is a 'joke' to make is 500ex?

Thats my point on hyperbole.

Yes, Harvest made great items easier than ever before for min maxxers who were likely already doing 100M+ dps.

However, for most players, even a single item maxed is not achievable given their play time/style, much less a build.

GGG sided with the min/maxxers and stomped everyone else with no regard, just like they did with streamer preference on launch.

I don't really see how they could have done a worse job on showing anyone but streamers/maxxers that the game doesn't care about their business.

No, you just dont know how to craft.

Also it definitely doesnt cost anywhere near 50 exalts to make a piece of gear, harvest has no entry or exit fee, literally all crafts inside harvest are free. Youre literally being handed deterministic crafting options FREE of charge and complaining about it as if youre spending your own currency to utilize it LOL.

Edit - Perfect example of how stupid this shit is. Made this with 3 exalts, 1 prefixes cannot be changed and 1 slam. Slam was dog shit 36 armour but it doesnt matter because the other prefixes and the other rolls and the unveil craft.

6L done with adding unveil mod for extra quality, around 50 jeweler orbs and 400 fusings for the 6L.

I have other pieces i can do still too.

Scrub the craft, craft a shit suffix. Slam it a couple times to fill out the prefix. Prefixes cannot be changed > Harvest critical strike craft. Disgusting survivability EV chest with inc crit. Ideal world id have the regen, flat life and %life but thats unrealistic for budget though certainly possible if you spam enough life harvests. Cost if i wanted to craft that piece, probably 4 exalts total plus whatever it take to 6L it. No where near 50ex.

Those are hardly full of T1 affixes.

Some relevant items can be made "easier" (if you spam Harvest and go focused on that mainly), yet multiple T1 take both a lot more time and more investment.

You can say 50 EX is "pebbles" for an "experienced PoE player" that employs all tactics to amass those, yet somehow, all of the players "blaming" Harvest as an "all too powerful item editor" miss those 10 T1 ONLY items on their characters, heck, most even missed them during 3.13 or even initial Harvest.

TencentGGG simply have to GIVE A DAMN REASON TO RUN >T16 Delirious content with Aw 8/9, and that should be "deterministic crafting" as in running a damn T19 at Aw9 Harvest should reward you with those asininely rare mods like augments MORE OFTEN than seeing them on T5s or T10s.

You would instantly have a reason to run "high end game" content for "proper itemization"...

Heck, they could introduce even HIGHER TIERS by going +2 on watchstones for, gasp, T22, or heck, even higher like +3 for up to T25, if T19 became "too easy"...

The "PROPER ANSWER" to uncontrollable scaling for multipliers regarding damage would be "PROPER SCALING OF IN GAME DIFFICULTY VIA CONTENT"... Every "proper" game does that.

Why can't PoE do the same???

And still, the current iteration of Harvest completely misses the REAL PROBLEM of the community pulling resources together for "crafting" those "perfect" items, while making the experience excruciatingly painful for solo players - making the Harvest patches provide a couple of mods should be balanced by actual having the random 10 effects appear more often AT LEAST, if not outright ensure that those cool xxx% are linked with the amount of various outcomes you get - 120% should provide AT MIN 3 outcomes; 140% AT MIN 4, and so on...

And as I said, move the damn "rarer and more powerful" options to the ACTUALLY DIFFICULT CONTENT as A PROPER INCENTIVE for players TO RUN THAT CONTENT while also tightening the ilvl interval to craft mod interaction to 5 instead of 10...

And if trading those "Harvest crafts" is such a problem, just ADD THAT DAMN NEW AFFIX TO ITEMS TO PREVENT ANYONE, EXCEPT THE ORIGINAL OWNER/FIRST PLAYER THAT USED HARVEST ON AN ITEM, TO ADD FURTHER HARVEST MODS...

Mind blowing, right? /s

We all know "the technology isn't here yet"... /s

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Also it definitely doesnt cost anywhere near 50 exalts to make a piece of gear, harvest has no entry or exit fee, literally all crafts inside harvest are free.

Also, mirrors and exalts are free, they have no entry or exit free, literally all mirrors and exalts you drop are free.

EDIT: In any case, in the current state of the game, crafting has too high of an entry fee (in general) to be interesting, fun or worth doing for the majority of players in the game. That was different in 3.13, which is why 3.13 was a much more fun environment to play in for me.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Also it definitely doesnt cost anywhere near 50 exalts to make a piece of gear, harvest has no entry or exit fee, literally all crafts inside harvest are free.

Also, mirrors and exalts are free, they have no entry or exit free, literally all mirrors and exalts you drop are free.

EDIT: In any case, in the current state of the game, crafting has too high of an entry fee (in general) to be interesting, fun or worth doing for the majority of players in the game. That was different in 3.13, which is why 3.13 was a much more fun environment to play in for me.

Its funny this is exactly what I thought when I read that harvest has no fee its free, exalts are free but they have value that makes them undesirable to use for frivolous purpose. Harvest is no different.

That being said I didn't receive a single exalt mod of any kind this league so its hard to talk about those, its a nice source of fossil mimic chaos spam, divines and the very occasional (but awesome) reroll prefixes or suffixes.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Those are hardly full of T1 affixes.

Some relevant items can be made "easier" (if you spam Harvest and go focused on that mainly), yet multiple T1 take both a lot more time and more investment.

You can say 50 EX is "pebbles" for an "experienced PoE player" that employs all tactics to amass those, yet somehow, all of the players "blaming" Harvest as an "all too powerful item editor" miss those 10 T1 ONLY items on their characters, heck, most even missed them during 3.13 or even initial Harvest.

TencentGGG simply have to GIVE A DAMN REASON TO RUN >T16 Delirious content with Aw 8/9, and that should be "deterministic crafting" as in running a damn T19 at Aw9 Harvest should reward you with those asininely rare mods like augments MORE OFTEN than seeing them on T5s or T10s.

You would instantly have a reason to run "high end game" content for "proper itemization"...

Heck, they could introduce even HIGHER TIERS by going +2 on watchstones for, gasp, T22, or heck, even higher like +3 for up to T25, if T19 became "too easy"...

The "PROPER ANSWER" to uncontrollable scaling for multipliers regarding damage would be "PROPER SCALING OF IN GAME DIFFICULTY VIA CONTENT"... Every "proper" game does that.

Why can't PoE do the same???

And still, the current iteration of Harvest completely misses the REAL PROBLEM of the community pulling resources together for "crafting" those "perfect" items, while making the experience excruciatingly painful for solo players - making the Harvest patches provide a couple of mods should be balanced by actual having the random 10 effects appear more often AT LEAST, if not outright ensure that those cool xxx% are linked with the amount of various outcomes you get - 120% should provide AT MIN 3 outcomes; 140% AT MIN 4, and so on...

And as I said, move the damn "rarer and more powerful" options to the ACTUALLY DIFFICULT CONTENT as A PROPER INCENTIVE for players TO RUN THAT CONTENT while also tightening the ilvl interval to craft mod interaction to 5 instead of 10...

And if trading those "Harvest crafts" is such a problem, just ADD THAT DAMN NEW AFFIX TO ITEMS TO PREVENT ANYONE, EXCEPT THE ORIGINAL OWNER/FIRST PLAYER THAT USED HARVEST ON AN ITEM, TO ADD FURTHER HARVEST MODS...

Mind blowing, right? /s

We all know "the technology isn't here yet"... /s

Thats the point, you dont need full T1 to make a retardedly good piece of gear so why do you guys think youre entitled to crafting 6T1 deterministically ?

You guys seem to forgetting that most of new T2 is old T1 and T0 is the step above that by elevating your influence mods which is also not needed. Also you seem to be completely ignoring the power of having 1) no mana cost, 2) Physical conversion )3 Phys Reduction 4) Fortify effect. You literally cannot build a beefier chest piece than those rolls. You dont have a chance in hell of getting a double aisling or even a single aisling with -mana cost. in a temp league. The only possible way this chest piece could be better is if i didnt whiff on the flat armour, but frankly thats irrelevant because of the other defense properties and T1 life.

The evasion chest piece has one of the most broken regen mods on it which has an incredibly rare weighting, especially dual or tri life. Again, highly unlikely to make in a temporary league but certainly possible but also not needed whatsoever. That mod stacks with the cluster jewel roll, giving an absolutely retarded amount of burst regen.

The items ive generated arent perfect gear, but theyre well past good enough. Ive created much better and have sold them.

Could i have two rolled influenced based that were elevated and awakened orbed ? Yeah, but why would i do that in a temporary league with time and currency constraints and an exponential cost increase ? Theres no reason to which is you individuals arguing about harvest dont know efficiency or how to craft.

Go on POE trade and find me a similar chest piece for either in ultimatum, look at how much a chest with near similar stats sells for, then compare it to the cost i spent to make it for free with harvest plus the prefix lock cost. Just the assassins garb alone with those two prefix rolls is multiple exalts because how rare it can be which setups it up for a %crit chance roll.

You guys literally have zero arguments against mine. Mirror worthy rares dont belong in temp leagues unless you play a stupid amount of time, period.

TLDR - Certain community members have "give me" syndrome.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Go on POE trade and find me a similar chest piece for either in ultimatum, look at how much a chest with near similar stats sells for, then compare it to the cost i spent to make it for free with harvest plus the prefix lock cost.

It costs that much because it is that hard to make. If it was easier to make, it would be cheaper. The magic of a free market, at work.

The problem is the insane discrepancy between gear that drops or is easy to craft or even just realistically attainable when playing casually to the real end-game or mirror-tier gear. Harvest crafting fixed that, "loot 2.0" as in the well-rolled Talismans that were a thing for a bit would potentially fix it, too. The insane gear discrepancies result in balance problems pretty much in every corner of the game.

And Harvest crafting still isn't free, at least not any more free than exalts or mirrors.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Also it definitely doesnt cost anywhere near 50 exalts to make a piece of gear, harvest has no entry or exit fee, literally all crafts inside harvest are free.

Also, mirrors and exalts are free, they have no entry or exit free, literally all mirrors and exalts you drop are free.

EDIT: In any case, in the current state of the game, crafting has too high of an entry fee (in general) to be interesting, fun or worth doing for the majority of players in the game. That was different in 3.13, which is why 3.13 was a much more fun environment to play in for me.

Its funny this is exactly what I thought when I read that harvest has no fee its free, exalts are free but they have value that makes them undesirable to use for frivolous purpose. Harvest is no different.

That being said I didn't receive a single exalt mod of any kind this league so its hard to talk about those, its a nice source of fossil mimic chaos spam, divines and the very occasional (but awesome) reroll prefixes or suffixes.

I think youre both missing the point that harvest rolls themselves are free thus have no cost. It also cost nothing to get harvest in map with the haewark nodes. Thus the entry and exit fee is zero.

This stand especially true in scenarios where you can spam roll your prefixes or suffixes, lock them with 2 exalts, and then deterministically craft whatever to complete the item.

Example +1 curse +%crit chest piece. Spam roll caster is literally all you have to do. Ideally you spam roll your prefix first because you want life/es/etc. Then you lock it off and roll critical strike. The mod weighting is high enough to the point where it should only take one roll.

You spent no scours, no transmutes, no augs, no alts, no regals, no chaos, nothing to use those crafts. But to complete a piece sure, you may have to use 2 ex for a meta mod. Thats NOTHING compared to the price youd spend in basic currency trying to roll these mods now which have been adjusted weight wise all thanks to harvests existence. Of course you dont even need to do this because you can use harvests prefix/suffix reroll insteat. Thus in doing soo it is entirely FREE.

Its funny to me, people are really ignoring the fact that theyre getting like 30 chaos worth of rolling DETERMINISTICALLY per harvest and want to bitch about a 2ex meta mod craft.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Go on POE trade and find me a similar chest piece for either in ultimatum, look at how much a chest with near similar stats sells for, then compare it to the cost i spent to make it for free with harvest plus the prefix lock cost.

It costs that much because it is that hard to make. If it was easier to make, it would be cheaper. The magic of a free market, at work.

The problem is the insane discrepancy between gear that drops or is easy to craft or even just realistically attainable when playing casually to the real end-game or mirror-tier gear. Harvest crafting fixed that, "loot 2.0" as in the well-rolled Talismans that were a thing for a bit would potentially fix it, too. The insane gear discrepancies result in balance problems pretty much in every corner of the game.

And Harvest crafting still isn't free, at least not any more free than exalts or mirrors.

Wrong, its "hard to make" for you because you dont know how to craft. Theres a reason i made it soo cheap and it isnt because its "hard to make" its because i actually know how to craft.

LOL "its not free". Yeah real convincing argument there buddy when its literally free in all aspects and meanings of the word free.