What's wrong with deterministic crafting?

They can always bump up the game's difficulty...

This is not about harvest, there should be a way to craft stuff without relying on RNG BS.

Because it's FUN!!!

I also don´t understand this. Especially since PoE is not competitive "per se".
I think it would encourage to play a league longer and also play more different characters, and not farming 24/7 for the same character.
Especially in a 3 month league period!
Bumping up the difficulty for Endgame may be better, combined with funny crafting. But that only my mind! I certainly miss harvest, for my way of playing =)

They don't want it to be that easy. Personally, I hated Harvest because having to go through the DMing process for every. single. attempt. was super annoying. The gear I got out of it was pretty good, but not fun at all.

Honestly, I wish there was a way for Harvest to be like it was intended - for just the player themself, not for other people's gear in exchange for currency.

considering the fact that the majority of players beat all aviable content in theyre respective league (sirus in 3.9 as example) without any harvest crafting and haveing only the rng crafting aviable, they all managed to get it done one way or another, there also is a laaaaaaarge number of ssf players even in trade, they just dont use the trade feature, including me.

however, haveing said that i personaly wish myself also abit more determenistic crafting, yes we have fosils, but these only increase the odds for specific outcomes, not 100% guarantee it.

personaly, and because its the internet so i have to specificly say it otherwise it starts snowing in the middle of summer, this is just my opinion: we should be able to have 2 crafted bench mods and up to 4 via multimod. maybe even remove 1 target mod for an extremly overpriced price! dunno let it cost a maven orb or awakener orb, they are still currency after all.

why do i have this idea? because benchcrafting never gets close to hightier rolls and lets you still have the chance of getting good/better items via rng crafting or straight up identify a nice op item! i have had so many yellows that had 1 or 2 very very nice rolls but the rest was garbage, because it missed 2 other rolls

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

They don't want it to be that easy. Personally, I hated Harvest because having to go through the DMing process for every. single. attempt. was super annoying.

Again this is not about Harvest. Although it played a big part, it still wasn't that easy.

It only became easy because you didn't have to create you own farm. That is where GGG made a mistake. They had a prebuilt farm for you and all you had to do was "harvest" your craft...But enough of farmville.

There is nothing wrong with deterministic crafting unless in the case of harvest that it's the ONLY source for deterministic crafting. The game basically became only do harvest because its the only way to craft. Now I think they screwed up by gutting harvest to shit, and the better option was to just spread the best crafts around to other leagues.

That said, Chris will go to the grave believing standard means something. The game would be dead dead dead if it had to survive on standard. Balancing ought to be done based on the temporary leagues and the assumption that all you stuff ends up in oblivion. Lets be honest standard is like that 20 year old game that like 500 meth addicts still play. He honestly believes that people will quit playing the game if they get good gear. Nothing matters, everyone comes back with the new league.

If you look at the steam charts for player retention. There is only one thing that is statistically significant for player retention... They make a new league. That's it, that's the only thing that matters. The differences in player retention is due to random variation. So they can have insane rng, they can have deterministic crafting, they can nerf, buff, w/e. They just have to create a new league.

I don't think there is anything wrong with deterministic crafting, Harvest or otherwise. In fact, there still is some kinds of at least semi-deterministic crafting in the game, through clever combinations of Harvest, Essences, bench crafting and stuff like that. You have to know the mechanics pretty well, though. Bench crafting is 100% deterministic (up to the rolls, that is).

Harvest wasn't deterministic, except for specific cases like augment caster prefix for +1 curse. Most of the things were still RNG, but the pool was smaller (aug life could give you 129 flat life, but it could give you a lot of other things, too). In a sense, crafting now isn't any less deterministic than it was during Harvest (using that for easy comparison, not because this is a thread about Harvest crafting), it just requires more intricate knowledge of the systems and more currency. Just check what the "1%" are doing, they are still making mirror tier items as always.

To be honest, I wouldn't even mind having to learn the intricacies. But the increased cost make it just way too grindy (for my taste), with the result that I pretty much stopped playing PoE altogether for the time being.

In a sense, GGG aren't opposed to deterministic crafting (we still got mutlimodding!). They are, for some reason, just super scared that people will make great items "too easily", so they make it so hard that some of the playerbase is just entirely turned away. The result is a crafting system that is super convoluted and, in my view, doesn't scale very well - in the sense that making items doesn't get progressively harder the better you want your items to be, but that it depends a lot on what you want to make. I don't like it very much.

From what I have seen, the Last Epoch crafting system is much more intuitive and makes a lot more sense. It embodies the "diminishing returns" a lot better than the PoE crafting system. It is semi-deterministic, gives the player more control (which always feels good). And it is much easier to understand - heck, I can understand the system without ever having played the game.

deterministic = bad

casino royal = good

It's called vision. There were manifestos.

u cant have fun period

Deterministic feels like cheating. It should be a help during early/ mid game but has no place in min-maxing.