This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

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thepmrc wrote:

Thats a bit of an exaggeration, but yes I like to use my brain while Im building my characters in an RPG. Diablo 3 does not require me to use my brain at all. I don't like that. Was never into Pen and Paper games, but you might be right on with that analogy for all I know about DnD.

DnD4 simplified DnD and removed skill points in favor of making combat more interesting.

Anyway: If you feel that D3 doesn't require abrain that's how you feel. I think that it provides the minimum tools that an ARPG should provide and does so well enough to make things interesting. I would counter your lack of belief in there actually being builds by saying that given enough orbs of regret PoE devolves into a similar situation. You of course will dismiss that. So no need to bother I already know your exact method of counter argument there. I'v played enough games to recognize good and bad systems. D3's projected system has the makings of bing great. That isn't to say that I don;t think that it could MAYBE use a little "place points here" to make people like you feel that there is the "right" customization. But neither do I dismiss offhand the fact the projected customization simply because "its items and..."

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Eviathluc wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Crafted items are potentially as good as uniques. You craft items by breaking down drops. You gained drops in those 15 minutes and can put those towards crafting an item if your 15 minutes didn't reveal anything good.

Not all random modifiers are equally helpful :)

Side Note: Forum feature needed -> Ability to delete one's own posts.

The point is to make finding the perfect gear hard. Supposedly there's going to be some "modifier pools" for each item slot/type to some degree. Which reduces some randomness, and lets you say "Hey I know axes usually have crit more often, but I REALLY want an axe with crit and +wizard damage"

I'm sure some of these "new players gimped by picking the wrong skill" conversations will be morphed into "new players gimped by picking the wrong items/mods" conversations eventually. Let me get a silver spoon for some of you.

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Eviathluc wrote:

I'm sure some of these "new players gimped by picking the wrong skill" conversations will be morphed into "new players gimped by picking the wrong items/mods" conversations eventually. Let me get a silver spoon for some of you.

Difference that in general an item or mod is easier to replace, and there are "replacement" options available built into the game.

The artisans are D3's equivalent to a respec. Totally RNG just like orbs of regret TOO. Fun fun.

In D2 (prior to 1.13 and most skill systems in general) if you screw up there's no going back. And you get to either be underpowered as you try to go through hell mode. Or reroll.

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thepmrc wrote:

Thats a bit of an exaggeration, but yes I like to use my brain while Im building my characters in an RPG. Diablo 3 does not require me to use my brain at all. I don't like that. Was never into Pen and Paper games, but you might be right on with that analogy for all I know about DnD.

The thing is, POE gives you the illusion of "using your brain" when it comes to character builds.

There are already solidified and viable builds within POE. I mean of course everyone's build is different in the sense that Joe blow #1 has a few more nodes into increased health% while Joe blow #2 has a few more nodes in increased armor%. When in the end the change of one's character is minute at most.

All the POE fan-boys make it seem as if the "skill node tree" is an open ended door to becoming any and everything, which is just plain false. If you randomly just place points into random crap and try to be a dual wand wielding frenzy ranger, you'll get absolutely owned at any difficulty past normal.

Which leads back to my main point that POE simply gives the player an illusion of vast character builds and customization when in the end its just a min-maxing fest .

Crouching Rager Hidden Munchkin?

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Bordam wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Thats a bit of an exaggeration, but yes I like to use my brain while Im building my characters in an RPG. Diablo 3 does not require me to use my brain at all. I don't like that. Was never into Pen and Paper games, but you might be right on with that analogy for all I know about DnD.

The thing is, POE gives you the illusion of "using your brain" when it comes to character builds.

There are already solidified and viable builds within POE. I mean of course everyone's build is different in the sense that Joe blow #1 has a few more nodes into increased health% while Joe blow #2 has a few more nodes in increased armor%. When in the end the change of one's character is minute at most.

All the POE fan-boys make it seem as if the "skill node tree" is an open ended door to becoming any and everything, which is just plain false. If you randomly just place points into random crap and try to be a dual wand wielding frenzy ranger, you'll get absolutely owned at any difficulty past normal.

Which leads back to my main point that POE simply gives the player an illusion of vast character builds and customization when in the end its just a min-maxing fest .

Yeah, you have to use your brain. Never said you had to be smart.

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thepmrc wrote:

I didn't take the time to read your whole post because I wanted to reply to this right here.

You probably should have, you may have learned something, rather than just skim reading and formulating smart ass replies.

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thepmrc wrote:

In D2 I had barbs that didn't even use a weapon specialization... there your argument is done. I played a WC barb, WW barb, Conc Barb, Frenzy Barb.... all these were different builds and served different purposes. Was my conc barb with 200k defense gimped because I chose different skills than my WW barb? Was my WC barb gimped because he was a caster type barb? No, are you totally off base with your argument? Yes!

When you talk about WC Barbs im guessing you mean this build...
http://newd2event.net/index.php?id=char_guides/barbarian/3
(Ironically this build in particular shows how crap the D2 system was, it uses 2 skills at max level, and stats are there just for gear use then the rest in VIT - yeah Ill miss that diversity in D2 /sarcasm)

When you talk about WW barb im guessing you mean this build...
http://newd2event.net/index.php?id=char_guides/barbarian/2

In fact scratch that, here are all the builds you used nicely posted online.
http://newd2event.net/index.php?id=char_guides/barbarian

But yeah there was endless customisation in D2 wasn't there, your build was so unique it even had its own recognised name on the internet. But yeah for a game that was around over 10 years its really something to see how its deep and complex RPG mechanics produced 100s of builds... oh hang on, except it didn't. And most of those builds were subpar or mode specific. WC Barb was a hardcore build for starters. And hold on didn't you claim you never read a guide online and yet somehow not only did you identically produce an existing build, but also used the same naming convention as well. Either you lied and did use a build guide, or the D2 system is simplistic and lacks so much choice that you stumbled upon 4 really well known builds by accident. Neither of those explanations does a lot for your argument really mate

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thepmrc wrote:

I wouldn't say gamebreaking

Except you did say gamebreaking.

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thepmrc wrote:

Yet you had to look on the internet to find these builds? By your own admission you have been lobotomized... Im guess it was Blizz Devs, lol.

Err no, remember what I said about reading comprehension. Why would I go to great lengths to explain how simple the mechanics were then admit to doing something I said I never did in the same sentence. Read it again petal, I played D2 from release WITHOUT an internet connection, so unless I invented psychic wi-fi it would be pretty hard for me to look up builds. My point was when I did get online it became apparent that in total solitude with no outside influence I had recreated some of the most popular and effective builds without even trying or knowing they existed. THUS illustrating how non diverse and simple the D2 mechanics actually were.

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thepmrc wrote:

.... Now you just sound like an idiot. Thank you for considering me a cool kid, but mocking our intelligence will not change the facts. D3 does not interest a lot of RPG players because it lacks many key RPG elements. It has nothing to do with our reading comprehension, but has a lot to do with our taste in games.

D2 lacked those same RPG elements, I wrote RPG games that were played by large groups of people and trust me D2 is nothing remotely like an RPG. If you think it is, it might explain why your so impossible to reason with, cause your basic understanding of the concepts being discussed are so warped.

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thepmrc wrote:

This is infinitely more choice, because as it sits there is NO choice. I am pretty sure that ANY is greater than ZERO. You are equating the number of viable skills with more choice, I am saying that there is no choice to make because I have access to everything at full power without making a choice. See? Or do you lack reading comprehension skills?

/facepalm

A) you only have access to 6 skils at a time.
B) You cannot swap those out in combat
C) Your gear will be symbiotic with your skill choices, so swapping willy-nilly just wont be worthwhile or effective.

I could go on but frankly your boring me now.

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thepmrc wrote:

D3 gives the player all the skills for their class without the player making any choices, this is true. Stating that all the skills are viable end game skills is taking the devs word for it, you do not know this as fact. Having access to all of the skills at maximum efficiency without making a choice does not promote build diversity and is not engaging to me in any way as a player. I am glad you feel engaged by the system, however, some of us are not.

You totally neglect a whole host of other mechanics that are barely touched on in the beta that will massively influence skill use, utility and effects. Discounting those makes a mockery of your argument. Not that it needs any more mockery. Not to mention you wilful misunderstanding of how the skill system works (picking a selection of 6 and building a character round them)

Rod.... I read your whole post and I tore the whole thing apart. I am not going to take the time to do the same here. Most of your replies were to the dude who barely speaks English and I was replying for him... I never called the weapon dps system gamebreaking, you would know this if you actually read the posts as you accuse me of not doing. The bottom line is there was diversity in D2 as I pointed out, if there was no diversity the game would not have such insane longevity. At this point you are arguing with yourself because I cant take you seriously.

I will add this little quote where you said you looked up LOD builds online..

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RodHull wrote:

That says alot. I never even had the internet when I used to play D2, but by the time LOD released and I got a dial up modem. I checked some resources online and I had managed to find pretty much all the best builds, why is that you think?? Am I a genius?? well no sadly, its just that the reality is D2 had VERY limited build options, and finding the best one was literally only hard if you had been lobotomised.

If it was so easy why did you have to look them up online? Because you had a lobotomy? I am sure you do the same for any game because you cannot think for yourself. This is also why you blindly accept D3 devs opinions on everything related to the game design.

I never said it was difficult to identify a good build in D2, I said it was fun and D3 stripped that enjoyment.

PS Its really fun to twist your words and frustrate you.

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thepmrc wrote:

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RodHull wrote:

That says alot. I never even had the internet when I used to play D2, but by the time LOD released and I got a dial up modem. I checked some resources online and I had managed to find pretty much all the best builds, why is that you think?? Am I a genius?? well no sadly, its just that the reality is D2 had VERY limited build options, and finding the best one was literally only hard if you had been lobotomised.

If it was so easy why did you have to look them up online? Because you had a lobotomy? I am sure you do the same for any game because you cannot think for yourself. This is also why you blindly accept D3 devs opinions on everything related to the game design.

I never said it was difficult to identify a good build in D2, I said it was fun and D3 stripped that enjoyment.

PS Its really fun to twist your words and frustrate you.

Reading comprehension fail. Not that I blame you.

Read it a couple times. And now add add a comma right after online and before and.

What he's saying is that while offline he had developed all of the best builds and used them on his characters. It's poorly formatted but when you know what he's TRYING to say it's clear enough.

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thepmrc wrote:

Rod.... I read your whole post and I tore the whole thing apart. I am not going to take the time to do the same here. Most of your replies were to the dude who barely speaks English and I was replying for him... I never called the weapon dps system gamebreaking, you would know this if you actually read the posts as you accuse me of not doing. The bottom line is there was diversity in D2 as I pointed out, if there was no diversity the game would not have such insane longevity. At this point you are arguing with yourself because I cant take you seriously.

Yeah you really tore it apart, despite not addressing one single point in a satisfactory manner. You go girl!! You wont take the time, because you know damn well your argument has collapsed and your just grasping at straws, as evidenced by your deliberate misunderstanding of my quote (below) and then continuing to harp on about it, despite it being obvious what I meant to anyone who bothers to read the post. I stand corrected for thinking you said that about gamebreaking though, but thats what you get for hijacking other peoples arguments I guess.

Your point about diversity is based on very faulty reasoning indeed, just because a game has remained popular for a long time does not mean its diverse. Games have longevity for all manner of reasons, the Mario games are insanely popular and have massive longevity are they diverse?? COD is insanely popular and has been for many years, is that a diverse game? Does that have diverse builds? No, ergo your reasoning is flawed, D2 was popular cause:

A) It was the definitive loot game, nothing before it came close to scratching that itch except D1. It could have launched with 1 class and it would have been popular.
B) The timing was right, few MMOs of any note existed back then, it filled a massive hole in the market.
C) It achieved cult status.
etc etc

If it was diverse pray tell why there to this day are still only about 3 or 4 worthwhile effective builds per class?? And that is WITH the synergy system, before that it it was even less.

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thepmrc wrote:

I will add this little quote where you said you looked up LOD builds online..

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RodHull wrote:

That says alot. I never even had the internet when I used to play D2, but by the time LOD released and I got a dial up modem. I checked some resources online and I had managed to find pretty much all the best builds, why is that you think?? Am I a genius?? well no sadly, its just that the reality is D2 had VERY limited build options, and finding the best one was literally only hard if you had been lobotomised.

If it was so easy why did you have to look them up online? Because you had a lobotomy? I am sure you do the same for any game because you cannot think for yourself. This is also why you blindly accept D3 devs opinions on everything related to the game design.

If you read it properly and understood my overall point it would be clear that I was saying I had created/copied/stumbled upon those builds myself without an internet connection but it was only later when I got a connection that I realised thats what Id done. It was illustrating a point that there was so little diversity that I accidently found most of the best ones without any internet access just playing solo. But then you'd know this if you read my reply (which you didn't that tends to hamper ones ability to argue properly)

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thepmrc wrote:

I said it was fun and D3 stripped that enjoyment.

How, explain how it stripped it?? For a start you dont know how the game plays beyond what is essentially the baby pool/tutorial level. You choose to believe everything the devs say is a total lie, fine thats your lookout but dont present your assumptions as fact. You have no clue what leveling will be like in the finished game, how different it might be to your beta experience. If you presented your statements are beliefs thats fine, but you present them as facts and dont actually have any data to base those facts on, which is pretty much a recipe for a poor conclusion.

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thepmrc wrote:

PS Its really fun to twist your words and frustrate you.

So you are just trolling then, nice, my opinion of you just skyrocketed even further. Im sure it must be ace being you and arguing with people you dont know trying (and failing) to twist their words. Ooooh im just shaking with rage im so angry... You showed me man I wont dare argue with you again.

You know what that last comment confirms to me that your arguments really have crumbled, you have now resorted to childish gamesmanship, the last bastion of the person losing a forum argument. But thats cool, anyone who matters can see your arguments are deeply flawed.