This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

Just want to say I think it is a bit to soon to cast judgement on D3 based off the limited amount of content we have had access to (which personally I enjoyed). I wouldn't want anyone to call PoE a crap game based off of 1 play through of the first act either.

Anywho, I'll be playing both.

Agreed. However we can cast judgment on the skill system and general lack of depth that is very apparent and embraced by the developers.

D3 is obviously a very well polished, well thought out, well put together game. It just does not deliver what I am looking for in an RPG. I can really identify with what Andymkay said a few posts up from here.

"

sYkoDe4d wrote:

But in D3? If i do 15min MF runs and find nothing i completly wasted my Time and if i Die i don´t lose exp because i am already max. lvl.

Care to explain where this weird baseless opinion comes from??

"

johnnysd wrote:

His argument for the most part is complete crap. First of all he has NO IDEA if you will actually use more than 1 or 2 skills at a time in the higher difficulties of D3

Yeah that told me, my argument is complete crap... You really haven't understood anything have you, let me go slowly for you. Whether you use 1, 2, 3, 4 etc skills on your character is absolutely irrelavent. The fact is you have the ability to choose to use any of the skills in combinations or on their own to make a build. Where as in D2 every single barbarian used pretty much the exact same skills, the ONLY choice you had as a barb was what weapon to specialise in. The facts are D3 present the player with all the skills for their class as viable end game skills, this means diversity and thusly build diversity will be far greater and more engaging.

"

johnnysd wrote:

Building a character has choice and consequence. Choosing 6 skills when you can swap at will. regardless of how many potential builds there are IS NOT a compelling system to many players. In fact it is trite and boring.

This is getting tiresome now. Explain to me in D2 unless you deliberately gimp yourself what choice and consequence you faced as a barb after you'd decided what weapon type to use?? Cause that was pretty much it. Its like your comparing a game like Fallout with D3. In a game like that (a proper RPG) everything you do has a choice and consequence attached, D2 is not that deep not even close, please explain what version of D2 you played cause Id love to play it to.

And furthermore you can swap at will but its highly likely that weapon mods will be of limited use to certain builds, so unless you want to keep multiple sets of gear the reality at the highest level will be most people will stick to one build and maybe have a few tweaked versions ready to use to tackle certain areas.

"

johnnysd wrote:

I never looked up a build in D2 and building unique characters and figuring out the build I wanted to complete hell in was a lot of fun and a good challenge.

That says alot. I never even had the internet when I used to play D2, but by the time LOD released and I got a dial up modem. I checked some resources online and I had managed to find pretty much all the best builds, why is that you think?? Am I a genius?? well no sadly, its just that the reality is D2 had VERY limited build options, and finding the best one was literally only hard if you had been lobotomised.

"

johnnysd wrote:

Also, from what I have read and seen myself in beta itemization in D3 is very trivialized. ALL SKILLS scale from weapon DPS which to me is completely gamebreaking.

First itemisation is probably at about 1 or 2% of what we will get when the games releases. You do realise that the beta represents just 5% of the entire games contents dont you??

And please enlighten me why scaling from weapon DPS Is 'gamebreaking' ??

"

johnnysd wrote:

D3 is polarizing and no real correct answer. If you want loot grinding and an all out emphasis on action with no choice or consequence, no chance to make a critical mistke, no role playing elements and simplified itemization then D3 is for you. If you want a deeper game, with choice and consequence and a role playing core then you will likely dislike D3 as I do

Or to put it more accurately, if your a buffoon with no reading comprehension then believe all the cool kids who decided its in fashion to hate on D3 with no real understanding why.

"

miljan wrote:

Also, people forget 1 thing. Your all characters now dipend 100% from items becouse of all skills dont have flat dmg, but % of weapon dmg. In d2 there where clases that didnt depend that much from items. Now all clases depend from items. I would personaly liked more that all classes depended less from items, and more from you character development.

Sorry but you do realise these are loot games dont you? The whole bloody point of them is to find loot. If you want a game where you can build characters that dont need loot and still progress play a proper RPG, D3 (and D2 before it) have never been and have never claimed to be proper RPGs to the best of my knowledge.

"

miljan wrote:

Show me my post where I said that d2 has more viable builds than d3, and i'll eat it with my laptop together. People, you need to read all posts to understand what we were talking about. I compared d3 with skill points to d3 without skill points system. I see my error now, that I should in every post copy what I was talking about.

You said it had more choice - ergo it MUST have more viable builds... must it not?

"

miljan wrote:

D3 with skill points has more choices, and build options (i count even if they are not viable, even if people don't agree that it should be called a choice) compared to d3 with no skill pooint system. We never ever talked about d2 number of builds vs d3 builds, or att least me.

NO IT DOESN'T... try to understand. All D3 with skill points does it makes it the same as D2 where suddenly only the one or two you focus on are worth using and the rest become redundant. Thats not more choice, ironically its less choice.

"

miljan wrote:

The thing I think they could do, is when you lvl, you get stats automatically, depending from class, like its done right now, but also get 4 or more skill points to put where you want, so you dont need items to do it for you. If you will still put all stats in one place, the same thing is with gems, nothing will change it. But this way, you have somthing to do when you lvl and are not that much depending from item for your customization.

Sorry but this is getting sad now, you are actually saying that despite an extensive system being in place to modify all your stats, that its actually a deal breaker for you that every level you dont get to spend 2 minutes (being generous) clicking a button 4 times??

"

miljan wrote:

Who said that I like PoE skill gems? I dont, becouse they depend to much from items. But PoE is new and first game they made, d3 is a sequel, that should improve the old system, not remove it, and move it only to items.

Many people do think its been improved, people who have taken the time to understand it that is.

"

RodHull wrote:

This is getting tiresome now. Explain to me in D2 unless you deliberately gimp yourself what choice and consequence you faced as a barb after you'd decided what weapon type to use?? Cause that was pretty much it.

I didn't take the time to read your whole post because I wanted to reply to this right here. In D2 I had barbs that didn't even use a weapon specialization... there your argument is done. I played a WC barb, WW barb, Conc Barb, Frenzy Barb.... all these were different builds and served different purposes. Was my conc barb with 200k defense gimped because I chose different skills than my WW barb? Was my WC barb gimped because he was a caster type barb? No, are you totally off base with your argument? Yes!

"

RodHull wrote:

And please enlighten me why scaling from weapon DPS Is 'gamebreaking' ??

I wouldn't say gamebreaking, but it is very unintuitive. Why does equipping a two handed sword make the damage of my lightning go up? It simply doesn't make sense and in my opinion is another cop out to make game balance easier.

"

RodHull wrote:

That says alot. I never even had the internet when I used to play D2, but by the time LOD released and I got a dial up modem. I checked some resources online and I had managed to find pretty much all the best builds, why is that you think?? Am I a genius?? well no sadly, its just that the reality is D2 had VERY limited build options, and finding the best one was literally only hard if you had been lobotomised.

Yet you had to look on the internet to find these builds? By your own admission you have been lobotomized... Im guess it was Blizz Devs, lol.

"

RodHull wrote:

Or to put it more accurately, if your a buffoon with no reading comprehension then believe all the cool kids who decided its in fashion to hate on D3 with no real understanding why.

.... Now you just sound like an idiot. Thank you for considering me a cool kid, but mocking our intelligence will not change the facts. D3 does not interest a lot of RPG players because it lacks many key RPG elements. It has nothing to do with our reading comprehension, but has a lot to do with our taste in games.

"

RodHull wrote:

NO IT DOESN'T... try to understand. All D3 with skill points does it makes it the same as D2 where suddenly only the one or two you focus on are worth using and the rest become redundant. Thats not more choice, ironically its less choice.

This is infinitely more choice, because as it sits there is NO choice. I am pretty sure that ANY is greater than ZERO. You are equating the number of viable skills with more choice, I am saying that there is no choice to make because I have access to everything at full power without making a choice. See? Or do you lack reading comprehension skills?

"

RodHull wrote:

Yeah that told me, my argument is complete crap... You really haven't understood anything have you, let me go slowly for you. Whether you use 1, 2, 3, 4 etc skills on your character is absolutely irrelavent. The fact is you have the ability to choose to use any of the skills in combinations or on their own to make a build. Where as in D2 every single barbarian used pretty much the exact same skills, the ONLY choice you had as a barb was what weapon to specialise in. The facts are D3 present the player with all the skills for their class as viable end game skills, this means diversity and thusly build diversity will be far greater and more engaging.

D3 gives the player all the skills for their class without the player making any choices, this is true. Stating that all the skills are viable end game skills is taking the devs word for it, you do not know this as fact. Having access to all of the skills at maximum efficiency without making a choice does not promote build diversity and is not engaging to me in any way as a player. I am glad you feel engaged by the system, however, some of us are not.

Rodhull points out something that I think a lot of people are missing. Yes, you can swap skills at any time, but you'll be penalized for doing so because of the way itemization works. Having attribute points to spend didn't allow for more "customization" in D2, you basically just dumped the points into the attributes that suited your class, their wasn't any real planning involved in it. Beyond that, it penalized new players who didn't understand how you should be spending them.

I am not a fanboy of D3, I understand it has it's flaws like anything else, but people are holding up game mechanics from D2 as if they are the pinnacle of game design when in fact they aren't, and many of them were pointless.

"

thepmrc wrote:

This is infinitely more choice, because as it sits there is NO choice. I am pretty sure that ANY is greater than ZERO.

If you look at the D3 skill system and say that there is no customization then you are either a troll or just ignorant to how the system works.

"

thepmrc wrote:

You are equating the number of viable skills with more choice, I am saying that there is no choice to make because I have access to everything at full power without making a choice. See? Or do you lack reading comprehension skills?

Well, your definition of choice is unique, but not in a good way.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

thepmrc wrote:

This is infinitely more choice, because as it sits there is NO choice. I am pretty sure that ANY is greater than ZERO.

If you look at the D3 skill system and say that there is no customization then you are either a troll or just ignorant to how the system works.

"

thepmrc wrote:

You are equating the number of viable skills with more choice, I am saying that there is no choice to make because I have access to everything at full power without making a choice. See? Or do you lack reading comprehension skills?

Well, your definition of choice is unique, but not in a good way.

My definition of choice is simply the definition of the word.

choice/CHois/
Noun:
An act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.

I believe I am correct in stating that I do not have to make any choices in order to acquire all possible skills.

I said NOTHING about customization, and I am in no way ignorant of how the system works. I just don't like it as it does not promote build diversity or meaningful choices.

I believe the shit said about reading comprehension really applies to you more than anyone else in this discussion.

"

thepmrc wrote:

I believe I am correct in stating that I do not have to make any choices in order to acquire all possible skills.

Since when did that become the major factor of a game?


You will make choices about which skills to use.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

thepmrc wrote:

I believe I am correct in stating that I do not have to make any choices in order to acquire all possible skills.

Since when did that become the major factor of a game?


You will make choices about which skills to use.

This is a major factor in most RPGs. The D3 system is like Dungeon Seige III which is kind of.... lackluster.

Congratulations you can point out the obvious.
This has no bearing on my posts. At least we know you can read, still unsure on the comprehension though.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

thepmrc wrote:

I believe I am correct in stating that I do not have to make any choices in order to acquire all possible skills.

Since when did that become the major factor of a game?


You will make choices about which skills to use.

And in Call Of Duty you choose the weapon and perks to use.

ALL HAIL new HnS king Call of Duty. !!!!!

"

thepmrc wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

"

thepmrc wrote:

This is infinitely more choice, because as it sits there is NO choice. I am pretty sure that ANY is greater than ZERO.

If you look at the D3 skill system and say that there is no customization then you are either a troll or just ignorant to how the system works.

"

thepmrc wrote:

You are equating the number of viable skills with more choice, I am saying that there is no choice to make because I have access to everything at full power without making a choice. See? Or do you lack reading comprehension skills?

Well, your definition of choice is unique, but not in a good way.

My definition of choice is simply the definition of the word.

choice/CHois/
Noun:
An act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities.

I believe I am correct in stating that I do not have to make any choices in order to acquire all possible skills.

I said NOTHING about customization, and I am in no way ignorant of how the system works. I just don't like it as it does not promote build diversity or meaningful choices.

I believe the shit said about reading comprehension really applies to you more than anyone else in this discussion.

Devs have stated multiple times that ITEMS will promote build diversity. The exact mechanics has not been revealed (+% elemental damage, +% damage with specific skills, +% damage with specific skill sets; all posibilities).

There is a promotion of build diversity, the difference is that if you get bored with a build you can switch out and "eat" the time it takes to get new equipment for your new build.