This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

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AgentDave wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Man, first no one beaten anything, nor prove anything.
I have 25. Moving customization to items is not a improvment, also removing skill points doesnt improve more viable builds, it removes only wrong choises if the skils are balanced good. If you want we can start again.

Mathmatical fact:

If X is positive, X% of Y is <= Y.

There are more viable builds (mathmatically speaking.) in a system with 30 balanced skills than in a system with 30-not-balanced skills.

Or, to put it another way - the very fact that there are "wrong choices" to remove proves your statement logically impossible.

edit: For the the inevitiable nitpickers: Yes, X% of Y can be > Y if X > 100. Which, in the situation we are discussing, is impossible. X is "percent of viable (IE Balanced) skill combinations" and therefore can not exceed 100%.

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miljan wrote:

Man, first no one beaten anything, nor prove anything.
I have 25. Moving customization to items is not a improvment, also removing skill points doesnt improve more viable builds, it removes only wrong choises if the skils are balanced good. If you want we can start again.

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A choice is not a choice if there is a mathematical best option, a challenge shouldn't be a challenge just because you never bothered to look up the best thing to do with your skillpoints.

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Autocthon wrote:

.....

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thepmrc wrote:

Some people don't look up the 'best' build on the internet because they have a mind of their own and like to experiment with 'choices' and formulate their own builds that fit their playstyle. This is where these 'choices' (what would you call them?) enhance a players enjoyment of the game. The fact that most people now will just run to the internets to tell them how to play the game does not mean that it is best to remove all build diversity and only allow the 'best' build. Im not into a D2 vs D3 argument because I have not played D3 full content, but I know that from what I have played on the Beta I would LOVE choices in character development.

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thepmrc wrote:

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A choice is not a choice if there is a mathematical best option, a challenge shouldn't be a challenge just because you never bothered to look up the best thing to do with your skillpoints.

Really didn't want to reply in this thread again, but I cant help it. This is simply not true and you can claim that it is as much as you like. Other randoms on here can claim it is true as much as they like. However, stating that a choice is not a choice because one of the options might pump out a little more dps is FALSE. The fact is if multiple options are given where a player has to make a decision, this by definition is a choice. You can say that it is the illusion of choice because you feel that one of the choices is the 'correct' choice, but it is still a choice no matter how you slice it.

Some people don't look up the 'best' build on the internet because they have a mind of their own and like to experiment with 'choices' and formulate their own builds that fit their playstyle. This is where these 'choices' (what would you call them?) enhance a players enjoyment of the game. The fact that most people now will just run to the internets to tell them how to play the game does not mean that it is best to remove all build diversity and only allow the 'best' build. Im not into a D2 vs D3 argument because I have not played D3 full content, but I know that from what I have played on the Beta I would LOVE choices in character development.

This is why I enjoy Poe so much. I can spend hours just playing and enjoying the game, building a character however I want, making choices, and having fun by playing how I want to play. D3 does not offer this type of RP gameplay, I have no control over my characters development. Say that the choices I make are not choices as much as you like it does not change the FACT that they are indeed choices.

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Autocthon wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

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A choice is not a choice if there is a mathematical best option, a challenge shouldn't be a challenge just because you never bothered to look up the best thing to do with your skillpoints.

Really didn't want to reply in this thread again, but I cant help it. This is simply not true and you can claim that it is as much as you like. Other randoms on here can claim it is true as much as they like. However, stating that a choice is not a choice because one of the options might pump out a little more dps is FALSE. The fact is if multiple options are given where a player has to make a decision, this by definition is a choice. You can say that it is the illusion of choice because you feel that one of the choices is the 'correct' choice, but it is still a choice no matter how you slice it.

Some people don't look up the 'best' build on the internet because they have a mind of their own and like to experiment with 'choices' and formulate their own builds that fit their playstyle. This is where these 'choices' (what would you call them?) enhance a players enjoyment of the game. The fact that most people now will just run to the internets to tell them how to play the game does not mean that it is best to remove all build diversity and only allow the 'best' build. Im not into a D2 vs D3 argument because I have not played D3 full content, but I know that from what I have played on the Beta I would LOVE choices in character development.

This is why I enjoy Poe so much. I can spend hours just playing and enjoying the game, building a character however I want, making choices, and having fun by playing how I want to play. D3 does not offer this type of RP gameplay, I have no control over my characters development. Say that the choices I make are not choices as much as you like it does not change the FACT that they are indeed choices.

There wa s abeutiful link that has the difference between a choice and a decision. Choosing to gimp yourself (or gimping yourself out of ignorance) is NOT a good way to present choices to players. It has NEVER been a good way to present "choices" to players.

Additionally D3 moved those kinds of chjoices to shoices in gear. Different gear does things similar to deciding where to put your stat points in D2 or where to put your passives in PoE. At lower levels this is transient, but at higher levels you will be introduced to less transient choices (do I use my gems on this? or wait) that are in fact the kinds of decisions you want to make. They're just not there in the beta because the beta is the tutorial levels designed to familiarize new players with the game (and that older ARPG players will largely breeze through for storyline to get to the meaty part of the game).

The whole point of the Artisans and gems in general was to allow for customization of a character both visually (what kind of gear) and statistically (what gems and mods do my items have). Because of the limited content of the beta you never reach this customization.

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miljan wrote:

Hmm, I wonder did you read my post good, or do you agree with me?
All you said is correct, and what did I said? 30 unbalance skill will not become balanced becouse you remove skill point system. They will stay unbalanced. Some people think the skill points per se are the problem of unbalnced skills.

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thepmrc wrote:

As I have stated before I reserve my final judgment of D3 until I play full release, but my initial feeling is that leveling up is completely lackluster. I much prefer the design strategy used by GGG, it puts the choices/decisions in the hands of the player. This affords maximum enjoyment for me as a player. Others might prefer that their character is built for them as they level. To each their own, I don't care.