This game ruined Diablo 3 for me...

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miljan wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

In D2 that respec didn't exist until like 4 months ago. In D2 fucking up your skills meant starting a new character.

Respect exists for few years now. So you don't fuck up your build.

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Autocthon wrote:

In D3 you make your choices by deciding what gear to equip. Each item type has different mods available. And you specialize in a skill by equipping equipment (which BTW is usually HARDER to replace than getting a new skill point) that gives bonuses to your skills. Read the D3 blog, they talk about the intention ALL THE TIME.

Equipment item is not a choice you can make. You need to get that item or make it. A lot of people say with a reason that customization in d3 is a lot more with items than d2 was.

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Autocthon wrote:

D3 simplyu CANNOT have a skill tree for active skills and remain balanced. The video HIGHLIGHTS why that point is true. The only kind of skill tree that works is a skilltree based around utility (A little MS here, a little dodge there Oh LOOK +MF I'll take that, or maybe I want that +damage to all my skills?). PoE is intelligent in that the skilltree is largely "divorced" from the skills. So you cannot make truly wrong choices in the same sense you can make wrong choices in D2 or WoW.

I'm not asking for skill tree,also video doesn't highlight that, it highlights that your in search for skill with best dps. And if you know that, there are no choices. You can have a skill tree and have balance. The dps of skill must be balanced, so every path you take will not be a wrong one.

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Autocthon wrote:

Wait... You think that choosing what equipment to use isn't a choice you can make? Really? D3 decided to run with the "shiny new loot" mentality of ARPGs and tie majority character choices to equipment. And you know what else they diod? They gave you a very simple reusable tool to let you get whatever equipment (with whatever mods) you want for your character.Bonus that the tool ALSO lets you make a small subset of unique equipment as well as set items.

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Autocthon wrote:

A game where there are no DPS choices would be a very sad game indeed. That aside: The video highlights that skill trees with choices related to your primary goal are not choices, they are decisions with a clear best possible outcome.

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Autocthon wrote:

I'm not opposed to adding secondary customization to diablo 3. I'm opposed to adding a skill point system related to active skills. Those NEVER turn out well no matter how much tuning is done. If D3 decided tomorrow that they were going to add a passive skill tree that had options like deciding between a little more crit or some more MS? I'd be ecstatic. But I know from experience that skill trees interacting with active skills do not work out the way people have convinced themselves they do.

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miljan wrote:

But they are best because the skills in tree are not balanced, and have best dps. Its not becouse of the tree it self, it's because of unbalanced dps of skills.

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Eviathluc wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

One skill point is not equal to another EVER unless all skills have the exact same stats. Any good D2 player will tell you that Frozen Orb sorceresses are the most efective sorceress builds. And that "altering" that will only make the game harder for yourself. Also any good D2 player will tell you that a sorc build not using Blizzard/Frozen Orb/Chain Lightning/Meteor/Fireball is so weak as to be non-effective in hell.

Pondering a reinstall of D2 to debate that point, *cough*.

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Antilurker77 wrote:

Autocthon, while I agree that D2's skill trees are god awful and wouldn't work well in D3 in it's current state, the skill points aren't the sole cause of D2's balance issues. For many of the classes, they had one LV20 skill that was simply better than all the other LV20 skills, whether it was due to how they scaled with gear or some other mechanic. That is fixable without removing skill points entirely. But at that point, skill points become redundant since you'd only max out skills anyway.

But then there's utility skills. For D2 they were either nonexistent or ignored, but most of D3's skills aren't DPS skills. Imagine a skill tree that consists entirely of utility skills. And unlike DPS skills, jack-of-all-trades can be viable. For example, say you have a choice of two skills: a stun and a physical damage absorb. Stuns would be useless against large monsters and the absorb useless against casters, and many areas either have one, both, or neither. You could split yourself 10/10 and do reasonably well in locations that have both types of monsters. A 20/0 build would be viable as well, you'd steamroll half the monsters but have issues dealing with the other half. But then you enter an area that contains only one type. A build that has all their points into the stun will easily get through an area with casters, while the one with the absorb will have to approach the area very differently and rely on any other utility they have.

Of course, this can't be added to D3 because the entire game has to be built around it which D3 is not.

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Eviathluc wrote:

I'm not really debating the most effective part, just the non-effective part.

Calling it gimp just means you shy away from a challenge.

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Randomlee wrote:

I'm pretty entertained with the immense amount of theory-crafting going on about D3. We've seen such a small portion of the game - a very minimal amount of the skills and gear that are going to be available in the game.

The length of the D3 Beta is equivalent to what point in PoE? Maybe up to killing Brutus? It's such a small amount of content to be making such broad and sweeping statements.

I know I'm going to play the crap out of D3.
I know I'm going to play the crap out of Path of Exile.

I'm incredibly glad they play differently.

Despite what every die hard, internet tough guy here says, come May 15th, you're ALL going to be playing D3. You should, it's going to be a great game.

When Path of Exile is finished, you should play that as well, it's going to be a great game.

In conclusion, man hugs all around. I love you guys.