Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Cast on Crit is degenerative. - Forum

+ IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle. You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.	Posted by Ashen_Shugar_IV#4253 on Feb 18, 2016, 3:25:00 PM Quote this Post
Mjolner isnt more powerful then coc discharge not at 30%, and prob not at the top end of gear at 50%.	Posted by Fhark#5469 on Feb 18, 2016, 5:22:24 PM Quote this Post
My BIG problem with Critiacal and generaly with characters reaching masive critical procents is CoC do it better. So if i have super hith crit 90%+ and i play let say cyclone, do i whana use Increased AoE gem or CoC Blade Fall? Aperantly damage and AoE is masivly better with CoC then just regular attack build with high critical. Critical is such huge invesment that live regular attack build usual unefective when compered with loot less invested CoC builds. Mechanics like Chain, some skill and stuff are balanced around CoC and regular crit builds dont see mach beneftits from Multy compered with just using CoC. I dont say things are not balanced or what ever but regular crit builds pay to high price if they ignore CoC. Also mods that ignore accuracy are to strong, it feel panishing for regular builds using them or not using them but for CoC is more then broken. 100% pirce att list disable Chain and Fork, RT disable crit and it all have its mechanical things to them but go firugre. Last edited by nEVER_BoRN#3512 on Feb 18, 2016, 6:30:52 PM	Posted by nEVER_BoRN#3512 on Feb 18, 2016, 6:20:10 PM Quote this Post
CoC is an interesting concept by itself - its kind of unique, gimmicky and fun. On the other hand, I do think its too difficult to handle and limits design space, at least in its current iteration. I must add that I haven't build around the gem myself, but from what I have seen it gave me the impression that it has a strong tipping point. As gear progresses it suddenly seems to go from quite mediocre/decent to exceptionally powerful, more so than most other skill set-ups/builds. This can also be contributed to several uniques that synergize strongly with CoC and each other, further complicating and rooting its existence. One thing that has always bothered my about CoC is the guaranteed spell crit on cast. Why would the spell also automatically crit when the attack crits? CoC requires you to invest a significant amount of resources in the whole crit-with-weapons and a minimal 3-link set-up, thus needs to be compensated somehow. However, I think the guaranteed spell crit contributes to its steep exponential power curve and thereby making it more difficult to handle balance-wise. Last edited by Baelrog#0263 on Feb 18, 2016, 6:44:43 PM	Posted by Baelrog#0263 on Feb 18, 2016, 6:36:52 PM Quote this Post
They should just remove CoC and introduce Multicast. Linked spells cast simultaneously and share their mana cost. i.e if arc is 16 mana and arctic breath 10 when linked with multi cast the spell now costs 26 mana + w/e the multiplier is for multicast, echo, crit damage etc and w/e other links. A part of the major problem I find with CoC is that the triggered spells have no cost. The current meta is hmmm I wanna be a spell caster..wait.. wouldn't this be much better as CoC.	Posted by JusJev#2518 on Feb 18, 2016, 9:21:01 PM Quote this Post
" SybilCut wrote: I don't have the gumption to get into too much detail right now, but I think that a support gem that has no use in most builds and in its respective builds says "cast supported spell 20 times a second" isn't good for game health. Cast on crit was originally a fine mechanic but attacks came out that hit so insanely frequently (with one crit roll affecting the entire skill) that it's impossible to balance. With cyclone, you cast any number of novas or discharge over and over. With barrage, you cast an insane number of projectile spells. And you don't even need to scale your physical damage in order to get these procs; it's 100% based on attack speed. The gem doesn't care if the attack did one damage twenty times. It's bad for gameplay not only because it's limited to very specific skills (else it be a waste of a link) but because harshly reduces the emotional impact of any given spell by simply casting it as many times a second as possible and bypassed cast speed. The giant "kaboom" of discharge doesn't actually have any impact when it's just bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbboom. There's no effort to build charges, so the emotional impact of removing all of them is entirely lost. Basically cast on crit is destroying your skills. Any new spell implemented has to be 100% considered as a tool for a cast on crit, which warps your balance. Any new attack implemented has to be considered as to whether or not it will be used as a cast on crit tool to launch over 300 sequences of casts a minute, eliminating any sort of satisfaction the player would receive from the playstyle of the skill itself. Cast on crit is an unbalanced and degenerative mechanic. Fun maybe, but degenerative the same way that Drillneck is optimal for most ranger builds, Doryani's Catalyst is optimal for most if not all builds that include elemental damage and AoE, and Hegemony's Era is optimal for most if not all physical staff builds without getting into mirrored gear. Those items individually are not so harmful, but they have wider reaching consequences on the game and its design (if any new elemental skill is to have an end-game weapon that is NOT doryani's, it needs to be particularly designed as such) the same way that Cast on Crit inevitably warps GGG's design philosophy surrounding their spells. So don't use it , problem solved . R.I.P 4.B.	Posted by tryhardgg#7333 on Feb 18, 2016, 11:49:09 PM Quote this Post
I have no idea why you guys think CoC is too strong. Honestly, look at the new skills introduced : blast rain, blade vortex and blade fall. All of these skills have insane damage. I have made a Coc discharge and then stopped playing it because it doesn't even compare to blast rain unless you have a voll's devotion. With blast rain and voltaxic, I just one-shot the atziri split phase, and my gear is literally worth 5ex. With a 6l volls and Coc discharge, it take me like 3-4 seconds to kill atziri split phase. And lets talk about blade vortex, with a tabula and some 1 or 2 ex spell daggers, you can get 500K damage with 50 blade vortex procs. Once I tried a Village Ruin with my Coc discharge character, died like 3 times and took at least 20 seconds to kill the duo. With a blade vortex character? Instantly killed the duo, they got deleted, gone. And with a low-life blade vortex character with 8k es and vaal pact ( the leech is insane with the amount of damage I do), you might as well be immortal. I personally haven't tried a self cast blade vortex character, but in reflect maps, I use just blade fall with my Coc barrage character. Just one spell. instantly clears the blue mobs on a level 76 map. And the gem was only lvl 16. Seriously, if you don't believe me and you have some ex, then build some characters and see.With all the nerfs (especially the GMP and Surgeon's nerf) , I honestly think Coc in a good place right now. Last edited by soods1#6144 on Feb 19, 2016, 3:17:19 AM	Posted by soods1#6144 on Feb 19, 2016, 3:16:29 AM Quote this Post
" soods1 wrote: ... I have made a Coc discharge and then stopped playing it because it doesn't even compare to blast rain unless you have a voll's devotion. ... And if you have one? Last edited by SuperMotte#2631 on Feb 19, 2016, 7:26:13 AM	Posted by SuperMotte#2631 on Feb 19, 2016, 7:25:51 AM Quote this Post
" Baelrog wrote: One thing that has always bothered my about CoC is the guaranteed spell crit on cast. Why would the spell also automatically crit when the attack crits? Of course not. The crit rolls are independant for the spell and the attack. " SuperMotte wrote: " soods1 wrote: ... I have made a Coc discharge and then stopped playing it because it doesn't even compare to blast rain unless you have a voll's devotion. ... And if you have one? If he has a Voll's Devotion (GG legacy broken item) and if he's using CoC with Discharge (broken skill), his DPS perhaps compare with Blast Rain. Yep. So what do you suggest ? Because CoC + Voll's + Discharge is surely a powerful combo, we have to nerf CoC ?	Posted by Yggdrasil_57#7701 on Feb 19, 2016, 10:25:05 AM Quote this Post
" Yggdrasil_57 wrote: " Baelrog wrote: One thing that has always bothered my about CoC is the guaranteed spell crit on cast. Why would the spell also automatically crit when the attack crits? Of course not. The crit rolls are independant for the spell and the attack. " SuperMotte wrote: " soods1 wrote: ... I have made a Coc discharge and then stopped playing it because it doesn't even compare to blast rain unless you have a voll's devotion. ... And if you have one? If he has a Voll's Devotion (GG legacy broken item) and if he's using CoC with Discharge (broken skill), his DPS perhaps compare with Blast Rain. Yep. So what do you suggest ? Because CoC + Voll's + Discharge is surely a powerful combo, we have to nerf CoC ? Yes.	Posted by SuperMotte#2631 on Feb 19, 2016, 10:42:06 AM Quote this Post