The forums aren't fun anymore

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Phrazz wrote:

Just don't understand the need someone have to be hostile, aggressive and/or hateful in a discussion.

Is it because:

a) "I choose to be a dick, write hateful, aggressive post because I MEAN that the guy I'm discussing with deserves it, and I MEAN I'm the right person to give it to him". The "I AM THE LAW"-style.

b) "I have no self control".

c) "I just don't give a shit".

d) "I have no empathy, and have no understanding that people are different and can react to such behavior".

e) "I think it's fun to spread bullshit".

We can all say heated things in a heated discussion, but when the same, old people keep pushing the line, I just can't help to wonder if they're still in Elementary School.

Discussing in an aggressive manner and being hostile and/or hateful are two different things. Stop making it look like the same thing. I tend to go aggressive with my discussion but:

a) I never ever would think like that, the sole fact that you can come up with such conclusions is puzzling to me, to say the least. If you feel like being "pushed around" by someone's opinion, I'd say you need to man up and stop taking everything so personal. It might not be problem with someone's way of talking, but your inability to be critiqued.

b) I don't, but I'm trying. :D Not so bad, so far. Only probated twice. :C

c) Errr, no. In fact, this is the most silly thing to say

d) Saying that someone's idea is stupid in a aggressive way TOWARDS THE IDEA means that I have no empathy? o___o Excuse my tone here, but it sounds to me that idea pulled straight out of ass. :-V Again, talking in passionate/aggressive way is nowhere near being hateful and/or hostile. I had very passionate discussions with my friends about PoE related stuff (death penalty being first that comes to my mind), where we made really aggressive jokes about each other's attitude. And by very I mean jokes that would end with a probation (or worse) around here. At the end we came to consensus about the topic and now everything is just a-ok. People are different, but I'd never say I want to see purist attitude towards every discussion around here. GGG would either have to probate almost every single more vocal person around here (like myself), or enjoy the empty forums, only visited sometimes by new players asking questions.

e) What? XD

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miljan wrote:

Great change, I already see few spammers and trolls are not posting and left. Really good thing. The forum went to shit with open beta, now its a lot better.

I'm quite sure you want to check what "spam" means, because when it comes down to REAL spam, nothing has changed... As for trolls... You mean the only people who wrote more than 2 lines of text per post?

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Perq wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Great change, I already see few spammers and trolls are not posting and left. Really good thing. The forum went to shit with open beta, now its a lot better.

I'm quite sure you want to check what "spam" means, because when it comes down to REAL spam, nothing has changed... As for trolls... You mean the only people who wrote more than 2 lines of text per post?

You should know what I mean when I say spam in context of this thread. And how much someone writes lines per post doesn't have anything to do with trolling, but what and how he wrote it does.

So ggg continue to keep it clean, and maybe the forum will be once again as good as it was in closed beta

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miljan wrote:

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Perq wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Great change, I already see few spammers and trolls are not posting and left. Really good thing. The forum went to shit with open beta, now its a lot better.

I'm quite sure you want to check what "spam" means, because when it comes down to REAL spam, nothing has changed... As for trolls... You mean the only people who wrote more than 2 lines of text per post?

You should know what I mean when I say spam in context of this thread. And how much someone writes lines per post doesn't have anything to do with trolling, but what and how he wrote it does.

So ggg continue to keep it clean, and maybe the forum will be once again as good as it was in closed beta

it wont...

Forum became toxic when GGG devs decided to leave it and fully migrated to reddit

The only way to bring back peace like it was in CB would be to start being active on the forums again to gain back autority and user's trust.

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miljan wrote:

You should know what I mean when I say spam in context of this thread. And how much someone writes lines per post doesn't have anything to do with trolling, but what and how he wrote it does.

So ggg continue to keep it clean, and maybe the forum will be once again as good as it was in closed beta

There is no spam in this thread. There are only opinions you do not agree with. By the way, censorship is clean by definition.
Closed beta was "clean" because there were very few people around. You can't expect GGG to run around the forum and analyze every single case when there are shitton more people nowadays.
Sure, you can simply delete stuff without checking it well enough, or you can risk leaving it be. This is the real question here.

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MonstaMunch wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Just don't understand the need someone have to be hostile

One man's hostility may be another man's jovial banter. People aren't vexed that they aren't allowed to be hostile, they are vexed by the current interpretation of what constitutes hostility (and other infractions).

Point!

But when you're participating in a discussion on a forum, you want to be heard (read). Isn't it pretty fundamental to think about how others may interpret what you write? Or is it just me, who thinks about the reader/receiver when I write?

And "hateful and hostile" often becomes a "thing" when someone start to debate the person behind the argument instead of the argument itself. And that's just not an element of a good discussion.

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Perq wrote:

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miljan wrote:

You should know what I mean when I say spam in context of this thread. And how much someone writes lines per post doesn't have anything to do with trolling, but what and how he wrote it does.

So ggg continue to keep it clean, and maybe the forum will be once again as good as it was in closed beta

There is no spam in this thread. There are only opinions you do not agree with. By the way, censorship is clean by definition.
Closed beta was "clean" because there were very few people around. You can't expect GGG to run around the forum and analyze every single case when there are shitton more people nowadays.
Sure, you can simply delete stuff without checking it well enough, or you can risk leaving it be. This is the real question here.

There is no spam in this thread? What are you even talking about, where did I say there is spam in this thread? I do not agree with what? I just posted here after reading the OP and stated what I think about it. I mean, did you even read my post?

There is no question here, there needs to be some order on this forum, and GGG should do what is in their power to make one.

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Perq wrote:

d) Saying that someone's idea is stupid in a aggressive way TOWARDS THE IDEA means that I have no empathy? o___o Excuse my tone here, but it sounds to me that idea pulled straight out of ass. :-V Again, talking in passionate/aggressive way is nowhere near being hateful and/or hostile. I had very passionate discussions with my friends about PoE related stuff (death penalty being first that comes to my mind), where we made really aggressive jokes about each other's attitude. And by very I mean jokes that would end with a probation (or worse) around here. At the end we came to consensus about the topic and now everything is just a-ok. People are different, but I'd never say I want to see purist attitude towards every discussion around here. GGG would either have to probate almost every single more vocal person around here (like myself), or enjoy the empty forums, only visited sometimes by new players asking questions.

I don't think we are on two completely different pages her, I just think you misread (or I "miswrote").

I can also debate and joke with my friends, about idiotic things like cancer, death, aids and so on. There's no limit to the things we make jokes about or discuss rapidly and aggressively. But that's a close circle, and I wouldn't dream about doing that in an open forum. That has to do with respect. And when I wrote "empathy", I were thinking about the ability to see that some people, of various reasons, may react to behavior like I have in my "closed circle".

And, again, there is nothing wrong with calling an idea or an argument "stupid" (in my mind), as long as we don't draw the automated conclusion that the guy behind that argument also is stupid and as long as we share the reason WHY we think it's stupid.

The most toxic elements to a discussion - as I see it - is:

1) Discussing the person and not the case
2) Talking as if an subjective view is the objective truth
3) Participant with no real investment in the debate, just troll-debate for the fun of it, trying to piss folks off.

Seeing threads where people - straight from the bat - debates the person behind the argument instead of the argument itself, makes me sick. Reading a "jk" thread usually makes me sad. The amount of personal attacks someone gets for not having the same views as the sheep flock, is sad.

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MonstaMunch wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Just don't understand the need someone have to be hostile

One man's hostility may be another man's jovial banter. People aren't vexed that they aren't allowed to be hostile, they are vexed by the current interpretation of what constitutes hostility (and other infractions).

Cultural/social norms will make these interpretations even more complicated. Some societies/cultures encourage fat egos while others not so much. In some circles sociopaths/nihilists flourish ie. bankers, politicians, military/police.

I don't understand people either. Maybe people lose empathy for others as a defence mechanism.
I do know the human animal is a subject of study for minds better equipped than mine.

agreer need more tools