The forums aren't fun anymore

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jooozek wrote:

I referenced to "game of thrones" as a bad tv series. My post was deleted. Can't even have opinions here.

I looked into this, and you're right. That comment shouldn't have been removed. However, the action was taken prior to the forum guidelines changing and talking to the support team. I hope that these kinds of issues will start to be resolved as we set into a place a new set of internal guidelines. If you find something like that is happening - please contact me! I'll look into it.

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I'm confident that things will perk up again - but it won't happen on its own. We need to work at it by testing the limits of the rules, engaging with Bex and her team, and continuing to challenge each other as we've always done so the boundaries can be clearly identified.

Bex has a big part to play in this by communicating and being transparent about probations and [RBS] - not just for the benefit of the people impacted, but also with the forums as a whole so we can establish where the lines are.

Things were a little quiet prior to the guidelines going in, as some people are more active in the beta forum or they're busy testing deterministic lockstep! I'm confident things will pick up again.

Please do engage the team. Talking to you guys is the best way for us to find the right line for the Forum Guidelines. At the moment, they are slightly harsher than intended, but for now I'm okay with that. It's good to find the upper limit of what's too severe so we know where it is and can pull it back to a comfortable place while keeping the core intention of the changes.

I'll do my best to be as transparent as I can with these changes. I think making sure that players have the information they need about the transition will go a long way to making it smoother and more successful.

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Xenocidius wrote:

I read the guidelines and I find them fine. Only this part can be hard to interpret and can "ruin" some fun :

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Examples of this would include, "TLDR", "Lol" in response to a question asking for help, "Just keep telling yourself whatever lets you sleep at night.", "Did not read".

Just to clarify the "lol" response as dismissive - this only applies when laughter is kind of inappropriate to the thread. For example, if a new player comes in and asks a question that's quite obvious to people who have played the game for a while but they genuinely don't know the answer, and someone comes into the thread and is just like "LOL" - that to me is dismissive and quite rude.

However, if there's a thread that's actually funny, and all you post is "Lol" - that's totally fine. That's like a + 1 to the thread.

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MaxTheLimit wrote:

At the moment, things are obviously changing. I think this is just a bit of a 'feeling out' period where the moderation is going to be a bit uneven until enough example situations are out there that Bex can point her team to. In the few interactions I've had with her, Bex seems to be quite reasonable. I'm sure she isn't trying to make this place less fun, but rather a more welcoming place for the players out there.

Thanks for your support, Max! This is indeed a feeling out period where things are going to be a little rough. I am working on finding examples of where the forum guidelines aren't working as intended or are too overbearing so that we can find a balance and settle things in the correct place.

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FadeXF wrote:

It would be very interesting to see some sort of fub forum "flame war" section of some kind - no holds barred, extremely minimum moderation - and allowing people to just duke it out.

I just don't know how that would work out though. It's just an interesting idea.

I'll give this some serious consideration. I have some concerns about it, but it may be worth while. It's been suggested in the past but it's possible now might be a better time for it.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Wait... wait a sec... Santa Claus isn't real?

I laughed. Thank you.

Hi there!

Just thought I'd drop in to address a few concerns regarding the new guidelines.

Please know that this revision has been brought in due to the excessively large amount of hostile and defamatory posts aimed at individuals on the forums. We are in no way aiming to censor or cull the community's opinions or freedom of expression.

However, it is our hope that this can be done without the need for aggressive content or by directly attacking any individual who chooses to use the forum, regardless of their background or playstyle.

Our community manager is working very hard to meet the needs of everyone who uses the forums, both current and prospective. The team will only action where completely necessary after warnings and repeat offenses.

Should you have any concerns regarding moderation, please feel free to contact us directly at support@grindinggear.com

I hope this information helps, as we are here to help in any way that we can. Have a great day in Wraeclast!

All off topic posts have been removed as these are considered spam. Please keep posts relevant to the thread and if you wish to discuss a different topic you are more than welcome to make a new thread in the appropriate forum.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I feel the "illegal drugs" issue is one of the biggest new changes. In some parts of the US marijuana use is outright legal... and in the rest of the US, it's kind of a joke, likely to be legalized in the next few decades. But in NZ it is illegal and mods will now put a quick end to it. Unfortunately this makes certain "harmless" American pop culture references (notably Snoop and Jay from the Kevin Smith movies) ridiculously unquotable in these forums.

I've been looking into this and discussing it with the team to get opinions. I agree it's counter intuitive to having a mature forum to ban these kinds of statements.

In terms of illegal drug references - we're going to update the rule:





I would also like to alter the terms around non-constructive posting but we're still thinking of the best way to do this. Before I make the above change official, I'm keen to get your feedback on it. Let me know what you think.

Perq - I checked the post of yours that was removed. Most of it was fine, but there were 1-2 lines that were definitely hostile and superfluous to the point you were making. It's typical that in these cases we would usually remove the 1-2 lines instead of the whole post if it has other redeemable content.

I'll talk to the people involved as they may have had some other reason for removing the whole post. Feel free to message me if things come up that you feel are too severe. Looking into specific cases in conjunction with player feedback is very helpful in order to tweak the guidelines in the right direction.

Hi there!

We greatly appreciate the feedback being provided, and those voicing their concerns to us within this thread. However please ensure to keep the information provided topical, and those regarding the new guidelines to match the dates of their implementation.

Our system does not allow us to place an account on probation without providing them with a reason as to why. Perq, please contact me at your earliest convenience. It appears that you were indeed provided with a detailed message containing the reasons of your probation. I am happy to help to clarify in any way that I can.

Have a great day in Wraeclast, Exiles!

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ghamadvar wrote:

They (GGG) should definitely work on optimizing the rules and how they are applied.

We are working on optimizing both of these things. There are a few rules in the new guidelines that aren't working as intended. We'll be working on either removing or rewording the ones that aren't doing what they should. - Illegal Content/Non-Constructive Feedback are the first two that I'll look at.

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You should never be probated without being told why.

I agree. In our internal guidelines there's a big emphasis on making sure that when a player receives moderation action they also receive adequate information about the removal to be able to understand why it was removed and how they can avoid it next time.

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qquno wrote:

I have an example where GGG ban person using this part of TOS, if you ask support why - you get answer like: TOS was breached. You may ask "which exact part of TOS?", answer was - "we could not tell you since this way ppl may avoid ban next time". Sounds pretty silly, but this is exactly what nait expressed with his puppet analogy, but GGG use it on daily basis :)

It's true that we don't do this for banned accounts as the information we provide can be used to circumvent our detection methods. However, the opposite is true in regards to forum posts. We want people to avoid being probated in future.

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

We should all just abandon this forum together as a stand against the oppression. There is clearly no difference for GGG between censorship and freedom of speech. This is forum moderation gone wrong.

If you find that this system is breaking down, I'm keen to hear from you with specific examples. Speculation can be good for knowing the general concerns and worries of the community, but in order to push for actual change, being linked to examples and specific cases is more valuable.

We are listening, and we're keen to get these Forum Guidelines to set in a good and comfortable place for the community as a whole. They're not quite there yet, but I'm finding the general "The sky is falling!" posts without any link to an actual event unhelpful in getting to the cause of the issue and being able to make the appropriate changes.

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

How can we link to anything if all we get is "post removed" in a PM and no way of linking the original supposedly offensive or nonconforming post?

If you just contact me and let me know that something of yours was removed and you don't understand why, or disagree with why I can look it up on your account, or you can let me know the username of someone else and I'll look into it.

Hi Guys,

Thank you for all of the feedback. If you are interested there is currently a related discussion located here. You're welcome to continue this conversation there.

Thank you very much.