Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

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Legatus1982 wrote:

What you are doing yourself, is in fact, ruining the game.

Whether you like it or not desync exists. It affects people, the effect is clearly visible and wide spread. It causes great distress to the current and potential players of POE. The forums clearly demonstrate this. Whether YOU have issue with desync is flat out, NOT FUCKING RELEVANT to this thread at all. Telling us about YOUR experience with desync does NOTHING.

The discussion has reached a point where it is obscenely obvious that fixing desync will NOT negatively impact the game. Players who cheat movespeed in races are EASILY spotted by very SIMPLE, BASIC, ONE LINE CHECKS in the server code. Additionally, player and monster position CANNOT affect the economy. Having movement on clients will NOT make players able to generate gear, alter damage output, or kill mobs through non-conventional methods (any more than they already can, anyways).

So what we are left with, is a situation where you and your buddies are doing NOTHING in this thread, but obstructing the path to a better game.

If you say so.

I think we made clear that there are players out there 100% supporting the decision of GGG to not trust the client more and to keep on this track.

Actually what's really happening here is two sides arguing from a position of no real knowledge.

- No one knows the net effect of desync on player retention whether small or obscenely large. That said, it's hard to argue is has an effect because there are clearly first-hand reports of people leaving because of it (and possibly more reports of leaving because of it than any other cause, not that I care to count).
- No one knows what the effect of trusting the client more would be, because it hasn't been tested (at least to our knowledge).

GGG could easily furnish data on the first and test the second in a safe, non-economy-affecting environment. Continuing to argue that 'X MUST HAPPEN' (i.e. client trust or dead game) or 'X DEFINITELY WOULD HAPPEN' (dead game if client trust was instituted) is pointless.

Total trainwreck of a thread by the way ;)

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davidnn5 wrote:

Actually what's really happening here is two sides arguing from a position of no real knowledge.

- No one knows the net effect of desync on player retention whether small or obscenely large. That said, it's hard to argue is has an effect because there are clearly first-hand reports of people leaving because of it (and possibly more reports of leaving because of it than any other cause, not that I care to count).
- No one knows what the effect of trusting the client more would be, because it hasn't been tested (at least to our knowledge).

GGG could easily furnish data on the first and test the second in a safe, non-economy-affecting environment. Continuing to argue that 'X MUST HAPPEN' (i.e. client trust or dead game) or 'X DEFINITELY WOULD HAPPEN' (dead game if client trust was instituted) is pointless.

Total trainwreck of a thread by the way ;)

While generally true, I want to point to some of the MMOs released in 2014 which did not take cheat prevention seriously and you saw them going to ashes in terms of ingame economy and botting for RMT. (with Wildstar and ArchAge being the main offenders).

You can google for the effects rampant cheating can have onto online games for "fair" gamers.

I just witnessed so many games which were destroyed by cheaters and the companies not caring or caring too late to safe the games integrety.

And since there is botting allready out there in POE affecting the economy, I'd rather not give the botters another possibility to further increase their farming possibilities.

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davidnn5 wrote:

Actually what's really happening here is two sides arguing from a position of no real knowledge.

- No one knows the net effect of desync on player retention whether small or obscenely large. That said, it's hard to argue is has an effect because there are clearly first-hand reports of people leaving because of it (and possibly more reports of leaving because of it than any other cause, not that I care to count).
- No one knows what the effect of trusting the client more would be, because it hasn't been tested (at least to our knowledge).

GGG could easily furnish data on the first and test the second in a safe, non-economy-affecting environment. Continuing to argue that 'X MUST HAPPEN' (i.e. client trust or dead game) or 'X DEFINITELY WOULD HAPPEN' (dead game if client trust was instituted) is pointless.

Total trainwreck of a thread by the way ;)

No. Leaving things as they are--especially desync--is pointless. It's a huge mistake.

Just play some faster paced builds and see how funny it is when mobs de or resynch. Or you get teleportet to another location without mana and low es or life... Very funny.... Without macros is playing the mode called hardcore not even possible... Go play act 1 normal with no attackspeed or movespeed etc and stay in that desychfree world with a trololol flameblast build..... Desynch is the fucking ruin of poe... Its so crappy that i went several times back to the unbalanced wow arena....

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Still, the point was about player activity, and we can objectively see it decreasing over time.

We can see Steam player activity kind of stagnating (not really decreasing, just check the monthly average numbers), overall player activity is kinda hard to judge when the majority of players don't use Steam or maybe even play on Garena servers (I heard Asians love grinding).

See, this argument can just die now because it has no way to be credible for the same reason you want to dismiss the Steam numbers--you don't know what portion of players use Steam. You can't have it both ways. But as I said earlier, if you just look at it as a ratio of the total player base, it will be consistent.

It doesn't have to be and it isn't. At release the ratio Steam - nonSteam was around 50:50. When 1.2.0 hit the ratio was around 30:70. Now it's probably even lower because there was no advertising on Steam for a long time. Apparently the Steam population has a much lower retention rate than the nonSteam population and thus isn't representative of the whole population :)

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The fundamental flaw is that people ARE ALREADY cheating, and yes that the effect of cheating that can be applied from this fix will be almost negligable. Any attempt to cheat move speed will be EASILY detected in seconds. And it won't affect the economy at all because you still have all the monster kills and loot generation server side.

The more we go into this debate the more ridiculous it is for these people to justify their position. Talk about unreasonable.

Move speed/teleport hacks won't affect the economy? Are you really that oblivious? x)

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Xavderion wrote:

It doesn't have to be and it isn't. At release the ratio Steam - nonSteam was around 50:50. When 1.2.0 hit the ratio was around 30:70. Now it's probably even lower because there was no advertising on Steam for a long time. Apparently the Steam population has a much lower retention rate than the nonSteam population and thus isn't representative of the whole population :)

1st of all, how do you know what portion of the game are Steam users? You don't, so don't give me that lame argument.

2nd, and more important, you misunderstood what I said with the bolded part. The ratio of players on Steam that leave the game is near certainly the same ratio of non-Steam users that leave. It's simple averages and probability--how statistics work out. Maybe if there was some reason Steam didn't work with the game, you could make a case for fewer Steam players, but there isn't one.

Just an example:

If the game has 50,000 active players and it's split 50:50, then using the Steam data to watch 12,000 players leave over a year means you can assume that roughly 12,000 non-Steam users probably did too.

If the game is more like 70:30 as you assert (with no proof), that means you have 35k:15k. If you see 12,000 Steam users leave, that's even worse, because by ratio that means 28,000 non-Steam users left. You've lost 80% of your players.

So rather than trying to argue the "legitimacy" of Steam data--which is the only reliable metric we have--instead think about why people are leaving. If you were to round up all the "I quit" threads and categorize them by percentage according to the reason for leaving, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that desync would be the #1 reason on that list.

Anyone trying to say that we can't know desync is why this game is losing players is simply in denial, and can make no honest/true claims/arguments about the topic until they can accept that fact.

Again, maybe client trust isn't the right solution, but GGG needs to fix this issue, and client trust is the only one we know WILL fix it (because we know the lack of it is why we experience it). If they can find another way that retains the security they have, all the better. Nobody in their right mind would argue against it.

On a side note, I reached an all-time best desync moment this evening when I entered a map, ran 7 steps and then somehow resynced right back to the start of the map. Total head scratcher! No objects or monsters nearby, nothing to run into, no doorways anywhere near. What exactly did the server think my client was sending it?? ;)

Action prediction predicts inaction. Action inception?

lol...