Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

This thread is ridiculous in so many ways its hard to keep track of (none of them are original tho, beaten this dead horse long enuff).

OP is basically saying that because some guy pulled off a dupe exploit for a few months the entire game economy is trash now so GGG should just give up and let it go to complete hell by opening the floodgates to exploiters.

GGG is not trying to protect their economy, they are trying to protect the game. The thing that keeps people playing longer than 2 weeks without quitting is the scarcity of high end items. Being able to get all the items you want easily would have a MUCH worse effect on the game than desync does.

Also there is more to desync than just protecting against client side exploits.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

It doesn't have to be and it isn't. At release the ratio Steam - nonSteam was around 50:50. When 1.2.0 hit the ratio was around 30:70. Now it's probably even lower because there was no advertising on Steam for a long time. Apparently the Steam population has a much lower retention rate than the nonSteam population and thus isn't representative of the whole population :)

1st of all, how do you know what portion of the game are Steam users? You don't, so don't give me that lame argument.

2nd, and more important, you misunderstood what I said with the bolded part. The ratio of players on Steam that leave the game is near certainly the same ratio of non-Steam users that leave. It's simple averages and probability--how statistics work out. Maybe if there was some reason Steam didn't work with the game, you could make a case for fewer Steam players, but there isn't one.

Had to respond to this.

saying the ratios of players ditching the game on steam is the same as non steam is 100% wrong. That is not how probability works. It only works that way when comparing different numbers of the same type. Steam users and non steam users are completely different demographics. A larger portion of steam users is almost certainly people just trying the game with no clue as to whether they will enjoy it or not and a larger portion of non steam users is gonna be people who are long time players.

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Splift wrote:

saying the ratios of players ditching the game on steam is the same as non steam is 100% wrong. That is not how probability works. It only works that way when comparing different numbers of the same type. Steam users and non steam users are completely different demographics. A larger portion of steam users is almost certainly people just trying the game with no clue as to whether they will enjoy it or not and a larger portion of non steam users is gonna be people who are long time players.

No, there is no difference in demographic. We all play the same game. If you want to make a claim against that, the burden of proof lies with you. In fact, all the people saying, "I want hard numbers" simply ignore this data and this fact because they find it convenient rather than address the facts as they are. Furthermore, this is an appropriate occasion for Occam's Razor.

A) Steam data can demonstrate patterns in player activity and the forums give an indication of why that might be.

or

B) We have no data and all claims are based purely on speculation, which demand more and more assumption to hold up.

Logic dictates that until GGG does provide their own numbers (and only if they contradict the Steam numbers), A is the only reasonable approach.

One more thing.

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OP is basically saying that because some guy pulled off a dupe exploit for a few months the entire game economy is trash now so GGG should just give up and let it go to complete hell by opening the floodgates to exploiters.

That isn't what he is saying. It has been repeated plenty throughout the thread, but what we want is limited client trust--just enough to fix desync. This is almost entirely in the movement/position areas of the game. It still leaves the majority of important functions server side.

I don't need to prove shit.

If you cant wrap your head around the obvious point that steam users are likely to have more players trying for the first time then any further argument is pointless. IMO you are just using a cheesy cop out to claim poe is dead. same old shit.

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That isn't what he is saying.

(looks at thread title)

"Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead"

facepalm

Right. Another person who refuses to apply logic. Not sure why you bother to join the discussion then.

Good day.

Says the guy who claims comparing apples and oranges is how statistics work.

You have to prove such a difference exists, because there is no reason to think they are different.

The idea that a higher % of steam users are new players (who are thus more volatile, ie: more likely to quit) is logical because steam advertises the game on the front page at times and has it sitting near the top of their most popular free to play list.

adversely the idea that a higher % of regular client users are long time players (who might quit short term but will come back) is also fairly logical.

They are 2 different demographics, that is a fact. There is a difference, that is a fact too.

What the difference is and how much is up for debate and can only be speculated.

Let me give you another logic puzzle.

Steam claims to have over 100m users.

Last we heard, poe has just under 4m users (and that's being generous).

You mean to tell me you don't think poe could have gained at least half (if not the majority) of its users from Steam? Don't be absurd.

They did advertise it too, btw. So claiming they didn't is a bullshit lie.

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A larger portion of steam users is almost certainly people just trying the game with no clue as to whether they will enjoy it or not and a larger portion of non steam users is gonna be people who are long time players.

Entirely speculation with no facts supporting it. Even your idea about demographics doesn't hold water for the same reason.

Here's a fact that you can't dispute: Regardless of how people heard about the game, they stayed or left on the merits of the game--not Steam. This is why it is apples to apples, and not apples to oranges.

Edit: Here's another thing. Players who try a f2p game are just as volatile regardless of how they learned about the game. You can't be a "long time player" before you even start.

Actually you claiming that steam and non steam users are not different demographics is what holds no water.

Demographics are man made divisions that hold no physical meaning. When we identify them they exist, period. What you are saying is like claiming old people and young people are the same demographic because we all live on planet earth.

I already said enough to support it on the last page. You are just re wording the same "proof or gtfo" argument you said from the start knowing full well I only have logic and circumstantial proof.

My arguments on the last page hold strong imo and im not gonna play the re post and re word game.

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Here's another thing. Players who try a f2p game are just as volatile regardless of how they learned about the game. You can't be a "long time player" before you even start.

Steam is the biggest source of advertisement for the game and hence draws more new players on it.

the idea that more regular client users being long time players is inversely proportional to the statement I said above.

That entire post is just a big "no u" post. Provide some logical grounds or evidence to support it. Your analogies fail, your "facts" are really just speculation, and you have provided no numbers that meaningfully support your position.

The burden of proof is on you.