Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

"

BerMalBerIst1 wrote:

"

Tanakeah wrote:

Care for me to link more to 'check out' with the story? :) And yes, you were quite wrong on the not being able to afford shit...cut back on the assumptions and you'll go more places. :)

**EDIT** The Headhunter, Voll's and the like were found and not chanced in maps with Zana mods, just in case that wasn't too clear.

Oookay Mr. Big Man on Campus lol calm down swinging your epeen around there, I already admitted to my mistake in the last post so there is no need to be a tough guy about it

You wanna go ahead and tell us why the economy is so fucked in your opinion?

No epeen swinging here, nor 'big man on campus'. It's simply called calling you out on your comments and putting you in your place. You admitted to me not being able afford legacy gear and the like after I called your shot on that, but you continued further with the whole 'story checks out' thing, like you were still trying to catch me on something. That post, comment, and linking of gear was to further answer that and once again put you in your place, and once I did you had nothing else left to respond to so you simply then try to downplay it rather than just simply staying away in the first place and not putting your foot in your mouth.

Hence why I told you to cut back on the assumptions...less likely to shove your foot in your mouth when you tango with someone who has handled your kind on message boards for years and years. And pardon the late response, been away studying for CCNA exams and the like, but figured you at least deserved a proper response to your reply. :)

How the fuck anyone thinks it's on me too prove desync is NOT my issue is completely incomprehensible when desync is the HANDS DOWN NUMBER ONE MOST COMMON THREAD ON THE FEEDBACK FORUMS BY A HUGE MARGIN... yeah. You guys can stop with that nonsense now, you're just embarrassing yourselves.

"

]Goetzjam, your arguments all seem to boil down to "no u." This is due to your complete unwillingness to accept the truth: desync IS a problem.

Desync is a problem for some people, not all. Again I don't have an issue with it except when i specifically played cyclone and the skill has been changed since then. Even when I had the issue an OOS macro made the build completely playable.

"

Every argument you have made is from the precarious position of, "No, it isn't." It's just like trying to have a reasonable, intelligent discussion with a theist. It just doesn't work. They all say, "Disprove my position" as if that is an argument unto itself. It isn't.

The issue isn't whether or not desync is an issue, of course it is for some players, but rather does it have a high enough impact in the game to CHANGE the stance of trusting the client for more actions. My argument is no, it isn't worth it.

"

You have "NO RIGHT" to demand evidence/proof of others if you aren't willing to provide any yourself--and you have failed to do so thus far.

What proof do you want that I don't deal with desync at least not anywhere close to the way you guys describe it? I can probably fraps something or stream on twitch if needed to, although I do play a pretty laggy build not sure how well it would do streaming.

"

Your McDonald's analogy fails because desync doesn't just "cool off" over time like coffee does. If it's so hot that you can't drink it, and it just stays that hot, people have EVERY right to complain about it. To take it a step further, it's like blaming someone's cup holder for how hot the coffee was. It isn't rational, and it doesn't hold up.

Ok so it doesn't work exactly as I planned, but it does still get the point across that not everyone is the same. Some people can tolerate hotter coffee, some people may never get rid of desync as a large issue, however if you put creamer in it or do something to change the coffee AS AN INDIVIDUAL then you CAN do something about the problem.

Compare this to a coffee warmer that plugs into the car outlet in the car, it will always keep coffee at a certain temperature, maybe even hotter then people tolerance. Unless you, the consumer changes something that coffee will always be to hot.

"

That said, some players have learned how to cope with it, but that doesn't change the fact that it ruins the experience for the other 99% (or however many it actually is). Many of that majority have long since left the game on that basis alone.

I personally hate using percentages, don't say 99% under almost any circumstance, especially without any data what so ever to back it up. The majority that left are gone, lets be more concerned with the players that have stayed and how you want to change the game to caters that have already left.

"

Also, I find your 40% figure highly suspect. Care to cite it? Not that it matters too much, because it would mean 60% (majority) do not play standard.

I don't have a source on current amounts and I understand this source is over a year ago, I don't expect much to have changed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1ip4iv/melbourne_meet_greet_a_prophecy_was_written/cb6wj8m?context=3

The largest amount of players in PoE play in either SC\SC league, that for sure is certain.

"

Your opinions of how the currency exchange is somehow better is also completely subjective.

My opinions on what exactly, I stated which is a FACT that chaos>exalt and jews>fuses>chromes>alts are BETTER rates then the leagues, which they are.

An opinion or observation would be that standard's economy is fine for the average player.

"

Let's face it. You go around the forums like you're some kind of PoE authority just because you post a lot, but your posts lack substance and credibility.

Do I have any fancy forum titles? Do I pretend to be GGG staff? Do I use streamer status (not that I stream) to influence anyone?

No

My post for sure don't lack substance as far as credibility goes, does anyone have credibility on these forums?

"

Your "experience" is also (apparently) vastly different from the majority of players, which means you can't relate to or understand where they are coming from.

My "experience' might be vastly different then those players not enjoying the game, that's for sure, but just because players that are enjoying this game aren't posting on forum threads as often as me doesn't make the majority of players having an un-enjoyable game experience. Saying I cant relate to issues because I don't experience them may have a small amount of merit, but simply because I don't agree with everything you say doesn't mean my opinion is less valuable then yours or I am a troll.

"

You don't understand, and you play your position off as if it's the only valid one.

Source? I try to present the point of view of a player that enjoys the game, one that doesn't want to see certain aspects of it changed, take it or leave it, provide supporting evidence when requested (if you so want) but please don't try and act like I only view my opnion as right or that this game is 100% perfect.

~+~+~+~+~+~

"

It isn't cherry-picking when there are voluminous walls of text dating back to the beta about desync and its effects. The evidence is all there. There are countless videos and streams that display it as well. What you are suggesting is akin to someone saying, "Oh, proving salt water exists by taking a cup from the ocean is just cherry-picking." Let's not be ridiculous, please. I agree with you that desync is not a black and white topic. I also agree that most of the threads go in circles.

It is cherry picking, a happy customer is a lot less likely to call a 1-800 number and tell them the service was good, however an un-happy customer will call and complain MUCH more often.

"

What I don't agree with is that the supposed benefits of the system that forces desync on us is worth the drawbacks. Hackers, dupers, botters, RMTers, etc have basically still done what they want, and banning accounts doesn't really do anything about it since the game is f2p. I've played lots of games that have cheaters in them, and while I don't personally do it or condone it, most of those games have still been perfectly enjoyable despite them.

You just don't get that trusting the client will open a WHOLE ANOTHER LEVEL of cheating, one that I am not ok with. Even if they wanted to ban everyone that did it, because the game is F2P cheating doesn't cost anything to do and MORE people would do it. Right now its somewhat controlled and they've added better ways to detect it, trusting the client is a mistake, one that I would more then likely not be happy with as many of the mechanics can then be abused, not sure pure cheating like now.

"

On the other hand, every time I die because of desync, I feel cheated. This is probably true for the majority of people as well, though I can't precisely speak for them. From everything I've read about it, that's the general feeling of it. So you have this catch-22 where you feel cheated by a faulty engine/netcode/whatever, or you allow the possibility that some people may try to cheat outright--which is still a bannable offense.

I don't typically play HC, so this might be a HC vs SC argument more then anything, but I rather be cheated 1000 times by a game mechanic that you should be well aware of, plan for, ect. Then feel cheated by not using hacks, we already know what exists now, if the client is trusted further, never miss an attack, move super fast, ect, ect. Not worth it, not worth it at all. HvC just got to level 100 the other day, in HC, bloodlines arguably one of the toughest HC leagues yet, but nope the game needs to trust the client more because players are constantly dieing to things out of their control. I just don't feel that argument is valid anymore, its been used for 2 years, people have found a way to deal with it, if you don't want to feel free to play another game but changing this game to be cheater heaven, no thanks.

"

What it comes down to is that this community and GGG both need to come to terms with the fact that no in-game economy is free of these issues, and damaging the player experience isn't the proper way to go about addressing them. Detecting/Deleting duplicate items should be the goal. I've seen games that delete the item that was copied (the original) in addition to the duped item when the player attempts to dupe it, destroying both items and leaving the player without the item they wanted to dupe. I think that is a much stronger approach, but other ways can work too. In the current state, you have no idea if any item you traded for is "legit" or not.

Its not only damaging ingame economy its removing mechanics that the game presents, movement speed, miss chance, stuns, ect. If the client determines these, those are amount the first things that will be changed for cheaters, gameplay things like those are part of what makes PoE, PoE. Second you rather risk the economy over gameplay issues for some people, while I can see your point paired with my previous points its not worth it, hell you yourself said that most of the people that had desync issues left.

Duping is its own issue, it as far as I know isn't possible anymore, the big as added with the masters xpac and I hope they are more careful in the future.

@legatus you just don't get it, I understand others have issues with desync, hell you might too, the issue is all I see you do is wine on the forums, not try anything to lesson the effects yourself. We are aware the code provides the problem for some, however others like myself don't have an issue, how is it GGG's fault when some players can play fine, others have issues but still playable and then yours which seems to be unplayable? The code more then likely is subpar for some routes that your isp takes you through, I personally don't know. The offer however is still there, send me your PC and I'll see if it still has issues from where I play. (what gateway do you connect to btw)

Number. One. Most. Common. Thread.

I don't know how many ways I must say that for you to understand.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The offer however is still there, send me your PC and I'll see if it still has issues from where I play. (what gateway do you connect to btw)

Hahaha haha hahaha, up until this point you really had me going man. +1 best troll worldwide, would forum again

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

The offer however is still there, send me your PC and I'll see if it still has issues from where I play. (what gateway do you connect to btw)

Hahaha haha hahaha, up until this point you really had me going man. +1 best troll worldwide, would forum again

Back to your 1 line responses and @rex says my post lack substance. 1/10 for substance 3/10 for ha's.

Please by all means just continue to post 1-2 line responses and ignore any of the valid points I made.

I must say, I am in disbelief of the people trying to justify or even defend Desync, at this point. I have been playing this game on and off again since Mar 2012, and the Desync issue is the #1 thing forcing my friends and myself away.
It doesn't make for enjoyable gameplay at all, it is a plain cancer on the game, and the single thing that has kept me from contributing, because I know that I cannot commit to supporting a game that will provide me with nothing but frustration should I Choose to commit to it.

There's some, and I say SOME, of you that will keep defending the Desync and citing it as "The greater good", but I am not so sure you see the full picture.
Indeed, it might lower the "Cheats" people can run, or provide them with speedbumps at least, but if you've followed this game for as long as I have, you know they've already wrecked havoc multiple times.

The Desync does not belong in game that relies on customer satisfaction to get it's monetarial support.

I know it's still a young year, but it's 2015. Desync and issues like it belongs in the dark ages, really.

TL:DR: While arguments can be made FOR the Desync (And all the causes and reasons), it is simply killing this game. PoE will not grow as long as this cancer remains.

"

Narlugh wrote:

I must say, I am in disbelief of the people trying to justify or even defend Desync, at this point. I have been playing this game on and off again since Mar 2012, and the Desync issue is the #1 thing forcing my friends and myself away.
It doesn't make for enjoyable gameplay at all, it is a plain cancer on the game, and the single thing that has kept me from contributing, because I know that I cannot commit to supporting a game that will provide me with nothing but frustration should I Choose to commit to it.

There's some, and I say SOME, of you that will keep defending the Desync and citing it as "The greater good", but I am not so sure you see the full picture.
Indeed, it might lower the "Cheats" people can run, or provide them with speedbumps at least, but if you've followed this game for as long as I have, you know they've already wrecked havoc multiple times.

The Desync does not belong in game that relies on customer satisfaction to get it's monetarial support.

I know it's still a young year, but it's 2015. Desync and issues like it belongs in the dark ages, really.

TL:DR: While arguments can be made FOR the Desync (And all the causes and reasons), it is simply killing this game. PoE will not grow as long as this cancer remains.

You don't even attempt to play this game on a regular basis so while I can understand that you feel desync has pushed you away, changing the game's manifesto to allow for more client side cheats would push me away. So GGG is coming upon a crossroad of do they continue to support a more secure less cheater friendly game or do they cave at the request to trust the client, at the risk of disappoint those that praise PoE for the benefits its server trusting design has shown.

Similar comparisons can be made for request such as an AH as well.

Main thing is people will always find a reason to complain.

Also its easy to defend desync when you yourself don't experience it as a gamebreaking design flaw (like myself) Its also much easier to defend when you don't want to see the game changed because of an issue suchas desync, where not every single player experiences it in this "gamebreaking form" Desync isn't designed to make the gameplay more fun, its designed to protect players from cheating, as simple as that.

Saying players that defend desync don't see the full picture is asinine of course we understand players\potential players aren't going to play PoE because of it. But look at our point of view for a second and think if the game was enjoyable and playable for you, would you support changing the game to be less fun and enjoyable for you, didn't think so.

Love it or hate it, that is personally my stance on the situation. Do I like desync, no, do I understand the consequences for not having it, you bet. Can GGG make improvements for players to have less of an issue, more then likely, but the wrong direction is to TRUST the CLIENT.

Review this thread as a whole, read the good points, bad points, experiences as you want. No one is right or wrong for an opinion.

PoE was never meant to replace to fill big shoes, I like it better as a smaller and overall better community then some games, as far as growing I don't really care if it does or not, its large enough now that I think GGG makes enough money and enough players are playing to not have issues with thinks that may be better for playing with multiple people.

"

Ten_of_Swords wrote:

What I am saying is that I have played since closed beta, I know some 30-40 HC players and have had many conversations about how characters die. And I’m telling you that of the players in that group, desync accounts for 1 in 10 deaths at best, probably much less even because it’s an easy scapegoat. If I was live streaming I would complain about an unfair death and consider posting the replay for others – if it was something I did stupid or a ‘fair’ death I might not. Therefore I would assume, you will find lots of evidence that players die from desync, but you have no idea how big the actual pool that’s being drawn from is.

You know what, this is probably the most important thing in the thread. Players are dying all the time in HC and in every single one of those, desync is at least a minor factor. Why? Because what you saw happen on your screen was simply not what actually happened, ever. Even if you don't think desync is affecting your game at all, it is. Next time you clear a pack of mobs take a look at the corpses, then /oos and look again. Notice how they all moved? Even if you one-shotted everything from offscreen with a proliferated flame blast, somehow the corpses are still jumbled around after you /oos.

So what do HC players do? Well, you can go to the forums and raise pitchforks about it, but even if you do that it probably won't be fixed for a LONG time. And we still want to play the game. So we do what every HC player does: we simply find ways to play around it. And when desync plays a part in your death, you say "well, I knew that could have happened, so I should have done something else". Because that's what a good HC player would say, "sure, desync was happening, but there are things I personally could have done better".

But guess what? Regardless of whether there are things that you could have done, desync played a role in that death. And that is simply inexcusable. No player in the universe is going to play perfect all the time. There is ALWAYS something you could have done better. But players are supposed to be fighting the content, not the technical limitations of the game.

Yes, any good hc player will tell you after a death that it "wasn't desync". But the reality is that if desync did not exist, that death might not have occurred. Maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't. It's the simple reality of the game you're playing, and one that should never exist in poe REGARDLESS of what excuses you want to throw around about security, work and coding. Gameplay is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the game. It's not complaining, it's not whining, it's the simple fucking reality of the world we live in and the game we are playing.

With that I think I'm going to take my ticket out of this thread. I've said what matters and the pointless replies that I know are coming about how it doesn't affect everyone even though there is a new desync thread every day just aren't worth reading. Cheers.