Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

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CanHasPants wrote:

If we assume one exalted drops per player per month (assuming one "month" is equal to some value n hours played), then 100 fresh exalted orbs will enter the economy every three days for every 1,000 players committing n/30 hours of play-time per day.

Out of those 1,000 players, if half of them found various items each worth 1 ex, and the other half each bought one of those items, then 500 players each control 2 ex.

Out of those 500 players, if half of them found various items each worth 2 ex, and the other half each bought one of those items, then 250 players each control 4 ex.

...125 players control 8 ex.
...~62 players control 16 ex.
...~31 players control 31 ex..

etc.

This is a vast oversimplification; however, the point is so elementary... While [value] is fluid, it will change hands. Consider that, while this simplification is far too structured to emulate real economics, it involves only 1,000 players exchanging only exalted. The real economy is composed of many more players exchanging many other orbs that are significantly more abundant. That you are somehow baffled that a player could amass [value]=40ex in a short time is... baffling.

/FFS

This is the most comical attempt yet. For one I have seen an item at 1+ ex drop once... EVER. A +3 to lightning gems staff. It had an actual value of much less than one ex since it never sold for 25c after several weeks. That's the best item I have ever seen drop in poe. It's still sitting in my stash, unsold after weeks. I found that in like day three of bloodlines.

More importantly, we are taking about a player who had FORTY EX, not 40 equivalent value. And that was in day three. You're going on the assumption that every player in poe found one ex, then found a one ex item, then found a two ex item. It's FUCKING ASININE.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Not interested in SC. It is not fun for me plain and simple. Last time I tried sc was right before I quit poe for several months.

And one ex per 24 hours is not even close to reality, not even goetzjam made that outrageous of a claim.

Please. Don't count /idle in Sarn or your HO as counting into those 30h grace period.

I am talking about after 30h being "infight" and looting. Count out all the questing/running around/trading/idling. If you take pure 30h slaying mobs in a fast fashion (means clearing maps in max 5 mins) I guarentee you will see 1 Exalt drop.

Also, I can not understand your decision to stay out of SC. You can learn so uch about what a character can and can't take adn you can progress after making a mistake instead of "take my elreon jewlery /leveling gear and grind another 8 boring hours until im in maps again".

Your choice though.

Sc is not fun. I quit the game last time u tried sc. I don't know how else to explain that to you. And your suggestion, if it even worked, is not one you can apply globally to the entire games population. "Like melee? Better play sc" oh ok. Because lets just send half the population of hc into sc because ggg won't balance their game.

And no, I don't care how you do the pseudo math, it will never be 1 ex per 30 hours and nobody will ever have 40ex in three days through normal legitimate means. To begin with nobody plays 30 hours straight so that logic isn't even feasible.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Sc is not fun. I quit the game last time u tried sc. I don't know how else to explain that to you. And your suggestion, if it even worked, is not one you can apply globally to the entire games population. "Like melee? Better play sc" oh ok. Because lets just send half the population of hc into sc because ggg won't balance their game.

And no, I don't care how you do the pseudo math, it will never be 1 ex per 30 hours and nobody will ever have 40ex in three days through normal legitimate means. To begin with nobody plays 30 hours straight so that logic isn't even feasible.

Its no pseudomath. Its my personal exaltdrops over the last 3 leagues. On avarege, it took me 30h~ per exalt drop. the last 3 leagues yielded me 20 exalts and it is pretty accurate for 3 leagues for me now (this is 1 year playing)

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Vincendra wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Sc is not fun. I quit the game last time u tried sc. I don't know how else to explain that to you. And your suggestion, if it even worked, is not one you can apply globally to the entire games population. "Like melee? Better play sc" oh ok. Because lets just send half the population of hc into sc because ggg won't balance their game.

And no, I don't care how you do the pseudo math, it will never be 1 ex per 30 hours and nobody will ever have 40ex in three days through normal legitimate means. To begin with nobody plays 30 hours straight so that logic isn't even feasible.

Its no pseudomath. Its my personal exaltdrops over the last 3 leagues. On avarege, it took me 30h~ per exalt drop. the last 3 leagues yielded me 20 exalts and it is pretty accurate for 3 leagues for me now (this is 1 year playing)

Not going to lie your one lucky SOB. Perhaps I am just not clearing as fast as you, but I don't see that much pure exalts drop over the course of a year let alone 1 3-4 month league.

In regards to legitimatly having 30-40ex a few days into the league we all know that is either, cross league trading, friends pooling together (like a whole guild) or RMT (or site that can't be named) Is it possible to amass that much wealth playing the game for 3 days with amost no breaks, yes, but you won't see that much pure in that time alone, you'd have to be really good at trading in order to get that many pure exalts (or cheat)

Bringing bots into the argument is asinine bots have a higher impact on alts\jews\fuses then they can ever possibly have for exalts, one does not farm for exalts they farm for lessor currencys.

Either way no one has came up with how bots are affecting or how the temporary league economies are "screwed" because of them. I for one know the last league I played in bots had little to no impact on currency rates, value of items, ect. People affect how much items cost, either with RMT or flipping, bots can only affect rates of alts\fuses\jews, even then those are in such a high demand that they will always be valuable in large quantities.

Don't anyone tell legatus to play anything other then his dual wield dagger shadow, thats the only melee build he wants to play and he only wants to play it in HC league, even one as punishing as bloodlines. And legatus it isn't that you just "like" melee its that you won't play and variation to the build you want to play, if you would change it up perhaps the game would be more fun to you instead your doing the same thing over and over.

Of my played time, if I generously account for "idle" time, I still don't come anywhere near 1 raw ex every 30 hrs. That's simply unrealistic. My experience (for what little that actually matters in a discussion about facts) is closer to 1 every 200 hours. Having 40 by day 3 of a new ladder isn't just suspicious; you are almost certainly cheating.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

. Having 40 by day 3 of a new ladder isn't just suspicious; you are almost certainly cheating.

The question at this point isn't whether or not someone is cheating, but how is the economy as a whole garbage or terrible at any point in the leagues because of "bots"

The argument is that people are cheating, rmting, botting, ect now and desync is a large issue, which is it for some people. OP or someone along the way in this thread stated the economy in the leagues are terrible and no point in protecting clients from cheating anymore, but rather trust the client for more actions to lessor the impact desync has on the game, problem is this won't ever happen.

If you read GGG's dev manifesto about desync you will see that they don't want to let the client do anything else. They COULD make changes to make desync less of an issue, hits cannot miss, cannot be stunned, ect, but they specifically want these features in the game because that is part of the design of the game, to allow for more complexity and gearing choices.

Ultimately GGG won't sacrifice the "economy", integrity of its features (stuns, missed attacks, ect) and trust the client for actions in order to improve\fix desync.

Those that are having issues with desync should try different things to see if anything helps, again I don't really have issues with it, but from what I have read people do many things:


/oos macro, probably the largest thing you can do. (you gotta actually use it)

Be observant of your surroundings, avoid using mobility spells\attacks during certain scenarios (like opening strongboxes)

Instead of running a quicksilver flask, run a quartz flask with movement speed, this will allow you to move thru monsters and not be re-synced back into a pack around tight spaces.

Not that everyone has the option, but unless they've fixed this having a pet follow you and watching it can help you spot when desync is happening, I don't recall the specifics to this, but if you search I am sure you'll find what I am talking about.

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If I think of anymore I'll post them, but you can also search on the forums to see what other players do to lesson the effects.

Its been somewhat established that PC hardware and connection to the internet (speedtest, ect) have little to no impact on desync, however some players get it worst then others like I mentioned before if I had the issues some of these players describe I'd be troubleshooting quite a bit until I could lesson the effects to where its very manageable.

Can GGG remove some of the rocks and other obstucials that players get stuck on to lesson some of the effects sure, but I would guess that the majority of deaths from desync have more to do with monsters (hence taking damage) then they have to do with objects blocking players. Do a little work on trying to improve the situation, follow some of the steps (if not all that I listed to help mitigate, if none of those thing help you then by all means please do come back here and complain, but be ready to submit proof that you've done those things.

There's really no need to submit that kind of proof--LOTS of people have already reported similar experience and trial-and-error methods that failed to pan out. It's not because of their hardware or connection (in most cases). It's because the calculations have to wait for the server to tell the client where they 'actually' are. It's a backwards system.

As for the Manifesto, that's a very old thread at this point, and just because they said A doesn't mean they can't change their mind to B to improve the game overall. Obviously, the system that allows desync doesn't actually achieve the goals it intended to, so GGG would be far better off just admitting that the experiment failed and put the player experience first.

Even if there's an effect on the economy, only Standard will be permanently effected since all the ladders reset regularly, and Ladder is where most of the player base is anyway. Yeah, it would kind of suck for Standard players, but they already have a shit economy to work with, so I don't think it's that much of a cost compared to the overall benefit to the health of the game.

I wonder how many people who left this game would come back if desync weren't an issue... Probably a lot.

The entire point of this thread is that the manifesto needs changing. Arguing about what it says is stupid.