Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

Like I said, exaggeration and hyperbole. How about they try it for 2-3 seasons and see if they can make it work. If not, they always have the option to revert back. As it is, the game feels pretty dead anyway, because nobody really wants to deal with it. The least they could do is try.

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Vincendra wrote:

Trusting the client on the character position alone will not make desync less, since the position of the enemies is as important to desync as the position of the player. you will encounter hitting thin air as much as now when monster seem to go through doors, but they actually dont.

By the way, this is just nitpicking. You obviously missed what I was saying. They can limit how much they trust to the client, and it absolutely is worth it to get rid of desync and make the game more enjoyable by allowing mobility builds to be viable--as well as all the other benefits that not having to deal with it brings.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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Vincendra wrote:

Trusting the client on the character position alone will not make desync less, since the position of the enemies is as important to desync as the position of the player. you will encounter hitting thin air as much as now when monster seem to go through doors, but they actually dont.

By the way, this is just nitpicking. You obviously missed what I was saying. They can limit how much they trust to the client, and it absolutely is worth it to get rid of desync and make the game more enjoyable by allowing mobility builds to be viable--as well as all the other benefits that not having to deal with it brings.

You dont get the point. Once the code is given to the client, you can make 3rd party programs workarounds, even if they "untrust" the client again.

I am happy that GGG is going strong on the "no tolerance" policy.

BTW my highest character so far is a 92 Cyclone mara with 50% MS basespeed and I can not remember when I died to desync the last time.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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Hemmingfish wrote:

Support, it's done nothing to stop hacks and everything to hinder legitimate players.

You seem to not understand what it helps prevent. All the "hacks" we have now are because that's all the information the client is given.

Any information that is given *will* be exploited.

ok then go ahead explain to me which hacks are not possible in poe that are used in games that dont have such desync issues... ah rght there are none yes even dupes are possible as has been shown.

it is more likely that you have not the slightest idea that it helps preventing jack shit and that poe is as exploitable and cheatable as any other game out there that doesnt force their shitty desync mechanics on its playerbase.

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Vincendra wrote:

You dont get the point. Once the code is given to the client, you can make 3rd party programs workarounds, even if they "untrust" the client again.

I am happy that GGG is going strong on the "no tolerance" policy.

BTW my highest character so far is a 92 Cyclone mara with 50% MS basespeed and I can not remember when I died to desync the last time.

"Untrust?" That doesn't even make sense. Those work-arounds wouldn't work if they revoked client side trust--which is only who does the calculating for where you and the monsters are in your instance. Your whole argument is that people will use hacks to manipulate this calculation if client side trust is given, but those kinds of things would be rendered inert if that was ever revoked. Even with it on server side, you could make just as legitimate of an argument that people already do that in the current state of things.

That "no tolerance" policy would be fine if it was actually working and not causing unnecessary issues that drive players away.

Btw, your "experience" and character level don't mean jack shit in relation to the topic. Desync is still an issue.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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Vincendra wrote:

You dont get the point. Once the code is given to the client, you can make 3rd party programs workarounds, even if they "untrust" the client again.

I am happy that GGG is going strong on the "no tolerance" policy.

BTW my highest character so far is a 92 Cyclone mara with 50% MS basespeed and I can not remember when I died to desync the last time.

"Untrust?" That doesn't even make sense. Those work-arounds wouldn't work if they revoked client side trust--which is only who does the calculating for where you and the monsters are in your instance. Your whole argument is that people will use hacks to manipulate this calculation if client side trust is given, but those kinds of things would be rendered inert if that was ever revoked. Even with it on server side, you could make just as legitimate of an argument that people already do that in the current state of things.

That "no tolerance" policy would be fine if it was actually working and not causing unnecessary issues that drive players away.

Btw, your "experience" and character level don't mean jack shit in relation to the topic. Desync is still an issue.

Not for me. Im fine with how GGG handles this and hope they will keep it that way.

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Vincendra wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Funny. Even with the rampant cheating that went on, D2 was still one of the best games I ever played, and I played from beta until last year (off and on after the first 4 or 5 years). Item economies don't define the game's experience. Build customization and diversity play a lot more into that.

Still, I think the extravagant claims of "god mode" cheaters that hit for 99,999 dps is probably an exaggeration. During the time I played D2, I played mostly on closed Battle.net, and never saw this kind of stuff except during a couple patches when "white" items were a thing. They resolved that and I haven't see anything of the sort since 1.09 and on.

Point is that it isn't hard to detect that level of cheating and stop it. The only thing (in poe) that really needs to be trusted to the client is the position of their character. This still leaves lots of stuff server side and can preserve most of the protections that actually do work so far. Can it be abused via cheats? Possibly. Is it worth it? Absolutely.

Point is, there is no point in even opening up to cheating by giving away the code to the client.

Trusting the client on the character position alone will not make desync less, since the position of the enemies is as important to desync as the position of the player. you will encounter hitting thin air as much as now when monster seem to go through doors, but they actually don't.


Trusting the client on character position will cause maphacking by sending wrong coordination data to the server.RACES = DEAD, PVP = DEAD, Cheats that navigate you out of any dangerous situation = HC DEAD.

It is absolutly NOT WORTH it.

 If what you say is true and there is no way to protect the client side code then CONGRATULATIONS! You have just stated exactly why there is a high desire for a Self-Found League. An SFL does not involve trading so there is no "precious" economy to protect, the position/movement code can be move to the client to minimize desync, and all the solo players will be much happier. If an SFL player wants to hack his own client to short cut PoE and gain an advantage then so be it, he is only robbing himself of the total PoE playing experience (same as D2 hackers).

 I still firmly believe that GGG would serve us better if their devs can find a way to protect the client side code in real time against hackers.

 The current server/client model can still be used for races with a better server/client that has the position/movement code in the client to reduce desync can be used for normal play. The whole point of all this talking is to try to get GGG to see the light and agree that "action prediction" is a total failure and is the reason we are saddled with high desync (excluding a lucky few that claim they don't desync much). While no one is disputing the fact that everything done server side reduces client side hacks, client side hacks do still happen (Maphack), bots are still being used by RMTers to farm currency and gear, and the average normal non-cheating PoE player that just wants to have fun and doesn't give a damn about the game economy is being shafted and robbed of maximum playing fun (and GGG has lost millions of players by staying with this programming model). Anyone still playing today is finding fun here (otherwise we would be long gone) but think GGG should be treating us better and not be pissing away their game by not making any changes to reduce desync. If it weren't for desync PoE would easily be the #1 arpg today and would achieve the same legendary status as D2 did.

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  You have just stated exactly why there is a high desire for a Self-Found League. An SFL does not involve trading so there is no "precious" economy to protect, the position/movement code can be move to the client to minimize desync, and all the solo players will be much happier. If an SFL player wants to hack his own client to short cut PoE and gain an advantage then so be it, he is only robbing himself of the total PoE playing experience (same as D2 hackers).

I really do understand the desire for a self found league or an offline client, D2 had it, but that is a relic from the past. PoE's business model relies on MTX sales an offline client doesn't fit that business model at all, even D3 doesn't have an offline version.


 The current server/client model can still be used for races with a better server/client that has the position/movement code in the client to reduce desync can be used for normal play.

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The whole point of all this talking is to try to get GGG to see the light and agree that "action prediction" is a total failure and is the reason we are saddled with high desync (excluding a lucky few that claim they don't desync much).

It isn't a failure its worked for over 2 years, the very few cheaters\botters there are now PAIL in comparison to what unleashing the floodgates would allow.

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While no one is disputing the fact that everything done server side reduces client side hacks, client side hacks do still happen (Maphack), bots are still being used by RMTers to farm currency and gear, and the average normal non-cheating PoE player that just wants to have fun and doesn't give a damn about the game economy is being shafted and robbed of maximum playing fun (and GGG has lost millions of players by staying with this programming model).

So your not disputing the reasoning for why GGG won't trust the client, what exactly are you disputing your solution of trusting the client but not caring if the botters\cheaters\ect all gain so much to where the economy would literally be pointless. Trusting the client can mean devistating things like movement speed bonuses\damage bonuses\never missing\never getting stunned\never dieing, literally everything you can possibly thing of can be possible by trusting the client, even if GGG still pushed loot and didn't trust the client for that, the fundamental things that make an ARPG tick.

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Anyone still playing today is finding fun here (otherwise we would be long gone) but think GGG should be treating us better and not be pissing away their game by not making any changes to reduce desync. If it weren't for desync PoE would easily be the #1 arpg today and would achieve the same legendary status as D2 did.

I don't think quite a few players posting on this forum have fun playing the game. They might want something specific like an offline version of PoE, or the ability to cheat by trusting the client. Please by all means point me to the #1 arpg, because as far as I am concerned that is PoE. D2 was fantastic, that is a relic from the past, but it isn't being developed anymore.

GGG can't fix the speed of light, they can only do small things to improve the effect it may have on some players, however sacrificing gameplay things that would allow for cheating isn't acceptable.

I'm going to interject here again because I see several people including goetzjam spreading lies and misinformation to help their case.

D2 was very open to hacking, so much so the often during trades people would question whether high end items were legit all the time. In fact it was widely known that GPOW was duped excessively and everyone had several.

Did that cause problems for the economy? Yes. Like I said most people had duped items. But guess what? It didn't devalue the game because of insufferable desync. D2 maintains legendary status even today.

So no, it is not better to keep what we have in poe. Period.

*Back to not participating in thread full of lies.