Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

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Narlugh wrote:

I must say, I am in disbelief of the people trying to justify or even defend Desync, at this point. I have been playing this game on and off again since Mar 2012, and the Desync issue is the #1 thing forcing my friends and myself away.

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goetzjam wrote:

You don't even attempt to play this game on a regular basis so... blah, blah, blah.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You don't even attempt to play this game on a regular basis so... blah, blah, blah.

Typical and predictable argument in your common style. You entirely miss the point of WHY he plays inconsistently--again refusing to accept that desync is game-breaking for many players IS A FACT. There's no point continuing to discuss it with you. It's hard to see your behavior as anything other than trollish.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Fixing desync will do more to help the game's overall health than refusal to trust the client has thus far. No doubt.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Fixing desync will do more to help the game's overall health than refusal to trust the client has thus far. No doubt.

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Narlugh wrote:

I must say, I am in disbelief of the people trying to justify or even defend Desync, at this point. I have been playing this game on and off again since Mar 2012, and the Desync issue is the #1 thing forcing my friends and myself away.
It doesn't make for enjoyable gameplay at all, it is a plain cancer on the game, and the single thing that has kept me from contributing, because I know that I cannot commit to supporting a game that will provide me with nothing but frustration should I Choose to commit to it.

There's some, and I say SOME, of you that will keep defending the Desync and citing it as "The greater good", but I am not so sure you see the full picture.
Indeed, it might lower the "Cheats" people can run, or provide them with speedbumps at least, but if you've followed this game for as long as I have, you know they've already wrecked havoc multiple times.

The Desync does not belong in game that relies on customer satisfaction to get it's monetarial support.

I know it's still a young year, but it's 2015. Desync and issues like it belongs in the dark ages, really.

TL:DR: While arguments can be made FOR the Desync (And all the causes and reasons), it is simply killing this game. PoE will not grow as long as this cancer remains.

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goetzjam wrote:

You don't even attempt to play this game on a regular basis so while I can understand that you feel desync has pushed you away, changing the game's manifesto to allow for more client side cheats would push me away. So GGG is coming upon a crossroad of do they continue to support a more secure less cheater friendly game or do they cave at the request to trust the client, at the risk of disappoint those that praise PoE for the benefits its server trusting design has shown.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Goetzjam, your arguments all seem to boil down to "no u." This is due to your complete unwillingness to accept the truth: desync IS a problem. Every argument you have made is from the precarious position of, "No, it isn't." It's just like trying to have a reasonable, intelligent discussion with a theist. It just doesn't work. They all say, "Disprove my position" as if that is an argument unto itself. It isn't.

You have "NO RIGHT" to demand evidence/proof of others if you aren't willing to provide any yourself--and you have failed to do so thus far. Your McDonald's analogy fails because desync doesn't just "cool off" over time like coffee does. If it's so hot that you can't drink it, and it just stays that hot, people have EVERY right to complain about it. To take it a step further, it's like blaming someone's cup holder for how hot the coffee was. It isn't rational, and it doesn't hold up.

That said, some players have learned how to cope with it, but that doesn't change the fact that it ruins the experience for the other 99% (or however many it actually is). Many of that majority have long since left the game on that basis alone.

Also, I find your 40% figure highly suspect. Care to cite it? Not that it matters too much, because it would mean 60% (majority) do not play standard. Your opinions of how the currency exchange is somehow better is also completely subjective. Let's face it. You go around the forums like you're some kind of PoE authority just because you post a lot, but your posts lack substance and credibility. Your "experience" is also (apparently) vastly different from the majority of players, which means you can't relate to or understand where they are coming from. This is why people call you a troll. You don't understand, and you play your position off as if it's the only valid one.

~+~+~+~+~+~

Ten_of_Swords wrote:

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Actual truth comes from experience. You believe that looking for videos of desync deaths on youtube means anything other then there are lots of PoE videos? You are essentially cherry picking data by doing that. What you see is called confirmation bias, and plenty of very smart people fall for this logical fallacy, no need to be ashamed.

It isn't cherry-picking when there are voluminous walls of text dating back to the beta about desync and its effects. The evidence is all there. There are countless videos and streams that display it as well. What you are suggesting is akin to someone saying, "Oh, proving salt water exists by taking a cup from the ocean is just cherry-picking." Let's not be ridiculous, please. I agree with you that desync is not a black and white topic. I also agree that most of the threads go in circles.

What I don't agree with is that the supposed benefits of the system that forces desync on us is worth the drawbacks. Hackers, dupers, botters, RMTers, etc have basically still done what they want, and banning accounts doesn't really do anything about it since the game is f2p. I've played lots of games that have cheaters in them, and while I don't personally do it or condone it, most of those games have still been perfectly enjoyable despite them.

On the other hand, every time I die because of desync, I feel cheated. This is probably true for the majority of people as well, though I can't precisely speak for them. From everything I've read about it, that's the general feeling of it. So you have this catch-22 where you feel cheated by a faulty engine/netcode/whatever, or you allow the possibility that some people may try to cheat outright--which is still a bannable offense.

I can hear the counter-argument already, "But they can just create a new account, like you said." That's true, but the hardcore cheaters are doing it even now despite the supposed "protections" in place to prevent it. Duping can be a real problem, and as I stated earlier in the thread, I find map hacks to be pretty harmless in normal play (non-races, really). The difference is that your "part-time" cheater will probably feel the loss more than one of the hardcore cheaters that are currently doing it, so the penalty will be more meaningful to your average player.

What it comes down to is that this community and GGG both need to come to terms with the fact that no in-game economy is free of these issues, and damaging the player experience isn't the proper way to go about addressing them. Detecting/Deleting duplicate items should be the goal. I've seen games that delete the item that was copied (the original) in addition to the duped item when the player attempts to dupe it, destroying both items and leaving the player without the item they wanted to dupe. I think that is a much stronger approach, but other ways can work too. In the current state, you have no idea if any item you traded for is "legit" or not.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Funny. Even with the rampant cheating that went on, D2 was still one of the best games I ever played, and I played from beta until last year (off and on after the first 4 or 5 years). Item economies don't define the game's experience. Build customization and diversity play a lot more into that.

Still, I think the extravagant claims of "god mode" cheaters that hit for 99,999 dps is probably an exaggeration. During the time I played D2, I played mostly on closed Battle.net, and never saw this kind of stuff except during a couple patches when "white" items were a thing. They resolved that and I haven't see anything of the sort since 1.09 and on.

Point is that it isn't hard to detect that level of cheating and stop it. The only thing (in poe) that really needs to be trusted to the client is the position of their character. This still leaves lots of stuff server side and can preserve most of the protections that actually do work so far. Can it be abused via cheats? Possibly. Is it worth it? Absolutely.