Do we expect too much from GGG?

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Quazplum wrote:

I feel like PoE is going through the same thing Diablo 3 went through and evolved from: There is no build diversity if you try to get crit chance and crit damage on every piece of gear, that's how it was in D3 and they changed it for the better (I no longer play the game though, I hate blizzard's assfuckery)

But what they DID do that was good in my eyes is stole PoE's idea of Unique items making different builds possible. Now with the crit thing, it goes right back to having no diversity, you use a bow? Crit. You use spells? Crit. You use a 2h weapon? Crit. Same thing D3 did wrong they are doing with PoE right now.

Erf excuse me but in D3 you still have to get crit in every piece of gear you can get it on, they changed nothing about how bad the itemization is, they just put band-aids on it : guaranteed main stat through smart loot, the mystic to get rid of that life on hit roll on your set gloves to get these 10% crit chance instead, a legendary crafting item that creates a socket on your weapon to put your emerald in it, etc. They changed nothing about the itemization (for example : when your weapon has no socket, it's trash, because you need the crit), they make it way easier to get the mandatory stuffs, so it seems less dramatic than what it used to be. But in the end, it's still the same crappy itemization.

As for the "they stole PoE's idea of unique items making different builds possible", they did it in a totally non PoE-way. The way set and legendaries items work in D3 right now pretty much allows one class to play one or two different builds to do good in higher difficulties. The items in D3 don't "enable" builds, they just force you to play a certain spec. When you're playing a DH in D3, you know that at some point you'll have these 6 Marauder set pieces, because that's the only level 70 set you can get through smart loot, it's designed for your class only. Other sets are designed for other classes. And the set bonuses tell you exactly what spec to play and how to play it. It sucks balls.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

Erf excuse me but in D3 you still have to get crit in every piece of gear you can get it on, they changed nothing about how bad the itemization is, they just put band-aids on it : guaranteed main stat through smart loot, the mystic to get rid of that life on hit roll on your set gloves to get these 10% crit chance instead, a legendary crafting item that creates a socket on your weapon to put your emerald in it, etc. They changed nothing about the itemization (for example : when your weapon has no socket, it's trash, because you need the crit), they make it way easier to get the mandatory stuffs, so it seems less dramatic than what it used to be. But in the end, it's still the same crappy itemization.

As for the "they stole PoE's idea of unique items making different builds possible", they did it in a totally non PoE-way. The way set and legendaries items work in D3 right now pretty much allows one class to play one or two different builds to do good in higher difficulties. The items in D3 don't "enable" builds, they just force you to play a certain spec. When you're playing a DH in D3, you know that at some point you'll have these 6 Marauder set pieces, because that's the only level 70 set you can get through smart loot, it's designed for your class only. Other sets are designed for other classes. And the set bonuses tell you exactly what spec to play and how to play it. It sucks balls.

I feel the need to disagree just because you are Morgoth.
Derp

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Iluvatar_gr wrote:

"

Morgoth2356 wrote:

Erf excuse me but in D3 you still have to get crit in every piece of gear you can get it on, they changed nothing about how bad the itemization is, they just put band-aids on it : guaranteed main stat through smart loot, the mystic to get rid of that life on hit roll on your set gloves to get these 10% crit chance instead, a legendary crafting item that creates a socket on your weapon to put your emerald in it, etc. They changed nothing about the itemization (for example : when your weapon has no socket, it's trash, because you need the crit), they make it way easier to get the mandatory stuffs, so it seems less dramatic than what it used to be. But in the end, it's still the same crappy itemization.

As for the "they stole PoE's idea of unique items making different builds possible", they did it in a totally non PoE-way. The way set and legendaries items work in D3 right now pretty much allows one class to play one or two different builds to do good in higher difficulties. The items in D3 don't "enable" builds, they just force you to play a certain spec. When you're playing a DH in D3, you know that at some point you'll have these 6 Marauder set pieces, because that's the only level 70 set you can get through smart loot, it's designed for your class only. Other sets are designed for other classes. And the set bonuses tell you exactly what spec to play and how to play it. It sucks balls.

I feel the need to disagree just because you are Morgoth.
Derp

I dun do this often, but, LOL! =^[.]^=

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Iluvatar_gr wrote:

I feel the need to disagree just because you are Morgoth.
Derp

Play me your Ainulindalë to please my ears instead, I promise to not fuck it up this time :D

This thread was interesting a few pages ago, now its just balance whine and d3 bashing. :/

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Mark_GGG wrote:

I can at least understand your opinion on the "shouldn't be able to reach 95% crit" thing - I disagree with it, personally, but I can understand why some people wouldn't.

Damn, hoped that you devs were not happy with the current design. 95% crit might be explainable with RL comparisons, but 95% with insane attack speed is not.

well I dont get crit on every slot that can get crit on any of my crit builds.

I dont think theres really a problem, crit multi gem needs a good nerf, sure, but aside that its inevitable that the highest damage builds will use crit.

You have base damage, increased damage, more damage, extra damage as, crit and speed (cast/attack). They are all layers in boosting damage and the highest damage builds are always going to get absolutely tons of ALL of them.

Non crit is still fine, theres non crit builds everywhere with dps that can obliterate maps. Its too much forum talk and people convincing each other that its a bigger issue than it is. I see it a lot on the forums, I dont see the problem in my game, my guilds builds, the many streams I browse through. Its a lot of hot air based on hot air based on exaggerated opinions from a very blinkered, limited view of what is really happening in the wider game.

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Sa_Re wrote:

This thread was interesting a few pages ago, now its just balance whine and d3 bashing. :/

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Mark_GGG wrote:

I can at least understand your opinion on the "shouldn't be able to reach 95% crit" thing - I disagree with it, personally, but I can understand why some people wouldn't.

Damn, hoped that you devs were not happy with the current design. 95% crit might be explainable with RL comparisons, but 95% with insane attack speed is not.

~sticks tongue out nanana a dev agreed crit is fine.

While i was playing, my character was crit based with a mirrored dagger, so i do know the power of crits. Even if 95% crit is justifiable, the fact that you can go around critting ~70% of the times(if you consider accuracy as well), while attacking 10 times per second, stacking 10 times more crit damage and while hitting entire screens, is not "realistic", or balanced in any way. If the crit cap is not to be reduced, something definetely has to be done about it. Some suggestions on the top of mind.

1) Reduce the base speed of all high crit weapons BY ALOT. I was the first one that i recall whinning about the attack speed of ambushers is the "real" problem during the past leagus, even more so than low life and stuff. Now it has become a trend and is totally justifiable. But not just ambushers, all high crit weapons should have a huge reduction in speed.

2) Make the multiplier rollable. Yeah, your character is trained enough to deliver crits on almost every hit, but there is no way his hits are always THAT deadly. So if you have stacked 800% multiplier, after you rolled a crit, make your multiplier roll as well (150% - 800%)

3) AoE CANNOT CRIT. that is my fabourite yet. All AoE skills cannot crit, every single target skill, if linked to an AoE gem cannot crit. As simple as that.

Of course i would ask one of the above.


I really love how Dark Souls 2 handles critical strikes. There on the top of my mind 7 different ways to score a crit there, only 1 of which is RNG based:

1) Counter bonus, meaning if you attack the enemy while he is in attack animation, thus vulnerable. This can range depending on the weapon from 10% to 60% bonus damage(abit higher with a certain ring, only with one type of attack damage-thrust)

2) Backstab. Pretty straightforward, you backstab the enemy and you deal more damage

3) Parry and riposte. You parry the enemy, leaving him vulnerable, resulting in a critical hit/

4) Guardbreak and riposte. If your enemy is blocking (shield or weapon), you can guard beak him, leaving him vulnerable for a critical hit.

5) Plunging attack. If you are on a ledge or something above the enemy, you can fall down while attacking, dealing a devastating blow aka. crit

6) Headshots. IF you play with a bow and manually do a headshot, you stun the enemy and do extra damage to him

7) Engraved gauntlets. The only RNG based. These gloves gives you a random 5% chance to deal a critical strke(around +50% damage), which can be stacked with one of the above crits, BUT if it does, it gives less extra damage. The chance is pretty low, but still, these gauntlets have downside. THey give sompletely crap defenses, and they are heavy as shit.

Besides all that, there is the mechanic, where weapons, deal different amounts of damage, depending on with which part of the weapon you hit the enemy. There are "sweet spots" and "weak spots" on weapons.

Unfortunately none of these could be implemented in PoE.

Crits are fine. Crit should be a lifestyle. Think of Bruce Lee vs Arnie. Who would win? Arnie... cuz Bruce is dead.

But the problem PoE has is that it has rewards that make crit even better than crit. Cast on Crit, and crit multiplier. Faster attacks. Status effects. All sorts of things that make crits even better than simply a crit. That's the problem with them. There's just too much other stuff that feeds off the crit. Then damage is "expected" at that level and crit becomes essential to play. Anyone who doesn't do it is gimp.

It's poor design.

So I'm a little confused, if you can understand why people have a problem with it, that means you see in some way there's a problem with it, because you understand it. But then having an opinion opposite to that understanding is like saying: "Well I can understand why you think the earth revolves around the sun, but I disagree with it"