Why Self Found is Fine: 7 Days of Progress

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pengant wrote:

Sickness give up man.

The OP must get our point by now, he can't be that dumb. He's just wanting to save face and not admit he was idiotic to post such a ridiculous claim and is trying to justify it with absolute rubbish now and everyone but idiotic morons will see that, so leave him to it.

Why so mad? Self-found is fine, especially after the FM patch.

What do you think of self found: Should Self found be more difficult than playing with trading on?

No. That would not make any sense. It should be the same difficulty for all, because if one "difficulty level" is "better" than the other there is no reason both trade and self found should be at it.
But playing SF on a league that allows trading will always be harder ofcourse.


Does other peoples experience with the game affect your enjoyment with the game?

Not the slightest.


When planning a build do you research what gems your chosen class can get from quest rewards as primary source of the build?

No, I never had issues with skill gems when playing self found.



What are your expectations on the gem and gear acquisition as you go?

I expected to be able to get powerful, cool, build defining, fun and interesting uniques after a few hundred hours of playtime.



What is your goal when you play? This one is bit more tricky in that it's interesting knowing both progress expectation and time played to get there.

For me the entire point is to come up with a fun and interesting build and then spend alot of time to get it somewhat complete. This is where my problem with SF comes in, there are so many fun and interesting builds that you will never be able to play because the drop rates for uniques are abyssmal. I have no problem with spending a few hundred hours on a character, but here even that will most likely not be enough. So SF players are very limited unless they spend , imo, unreasonable amount of time farming.


I have played PoE for over 1000 hours.

Sorry for the formating. My phone really hates this forum.

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Zanixx wrote:

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ecogen wrote:

Calculate the time it would take to craft 1 GG item for any slot without trading. Not full inventory mind you just 1, then talk to me about "time investment". I'd rather not die of old age in the process if possible.
The "You will eventually get there" is pure bullshit, sorry to burst your bubble. Oh and if you respond "crafting GG items was meant to be done by trading" just proves my point.

Ecogen, you're missing the point. Playing SF means you are very unlikely to find or craft a GG item. Its not necessary. You don't need any kind of GG item.

You seem to think this game is only enjoyable/playable/completable by having GG items. You're wrong.

Am I missing the point? Really? Just to start off, you don't get to tell me what's fun for me, same as I don't get to tell you what's fun for you.
Now that we got that out of the way. Saying "Playing SF means you are very unlikely to find or craft a GG item." kinda proves my point doesn't it? Is it required as you say, maybe not. Same as it's not required to play self-found with a gear dependent build, like for instance most melee builds, so everyone should be playing a caster when playing SF for convenience's sake? Being necessary has nothing to do with anything, it's still content in the game and it's still gated behind trading, which was my point. You think that's fine, I don't. Let's agree to disagree.

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Sickness wrote:

It was (failed) sarcasm.
You are saying that it is fine that a certain feature is unavailible to self found players because they don't need it. But no one needs it, so why should it be availible for anyone?
The answer is that it should be availible because it makes the game more fun and interesting, but that applies to self found aswell.

I know it was :p

You are confusing my words. It's certainly not unavailable to anyone. Its hard to achieve a GG item as a SF player (or trader for that matter!!) but ofcourse it is still available.

As a SF player, I accept that I am placing certain restrictions and/or limitations on my playthrough. As a SF player I know that it is very unlikely I could base a build around a Shavronnes Wrappings for example, simply because what are the chances? If it drops, great - GG to me but until that moment (lol) then its off the table.
You know what? Thats fine.

You need to step away from the idea that everything needs/should be equal to all situations.

The fact its harder for SF players to craft GG items, doesn't mean a change needs to happen. Crafting has already been elevated to a much greater level with the Masters expansion.
Instead, concentrate on the fact that if crafting is a major appeal to you, you will probably need to trade to truely make a GG item. Nothing wrong with that.

Look, drop rates and crafting costs are put at a certain value that GGG considers optimal (with trading considerd), but if you dont trade you are not at that optimal point anymore.
Why is it bad for SF players to play with what ggg considerd optimal?

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Zanixx wrote:

You are confusing my words. It's certainly not unavailable to anyone. Its hard to achieve a GG item as a SF player (or trader for that matter!!) but ofcourse it is still available.

It's theoretically available, practically not so much. We don't have an infinite amount of time. (talking about crafting one)

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Zanixx wrote:

As a SF player, I accept that I am placing certain restrictions and/or limitations on my playthrough. As a SF player I know that it is very unlikely I could base a build around a Shavronnes Wrappings for example, simply because what are the chances? If it drops, great - GG to me but until that moment (lol) then its off the table.
You know what? Thats fine.

This mentality is the problem to be completely honest. Why should you have limitations as SF when they can easily be removed by creating a separate league? Would that even bother anyone?

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Zanixx wrote:

You need to step away from the idea that everything needs/should be equal to all situations.

I would agree, if it wasn't so easy (as I stated above), to pretty much create a league where SF doesn't mean playing with limitations.

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Zanixx wrote:

The fact its harder for SF players to craft GG items, doesn't mean a change needs to happen. Crafting has already been elevated to a much greater level with the Masters expansion.
Instead, concentrate on the fact that if crafting is a major appeal to you, you will probably need to trade to truely make a GG item. Nothing wrong with that.

Again to craft a gg item as SF is practically impossible, it would take years. I do agree though that the masters expansion is taking things in the right direction.

Depends what you consider to be 'optimal'. Optimal at what? at getting GG items as fast as you can?

Why do you play on fresh leagues then?, All of those items you found/traded 4 months ago are lost and you have to start again. Surely that is not as optimal as just playing in standard and keeping all those hard earned items.

Does optimal mean to stay in standard then?

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Sickness wrote:

No. That would not make any sense. It should be the same difficulty for all, because if one "difficulty level" is "better" than the other there is no reason both trade and self found should be at it.
But playing SF on a league that allows trading will always be harder ofcourse.

If you take on same content while bieng weaker it becoming harder. I have seen and played alot of different games where switching game to different difficulty mode rather than changing game parameters changed your parameters. And games did become more difficult without changing anything else as a result.

That why I tend to think of playing self found in any POE league currently as chalenge run. much like let's players do for other games (speedruns, variuos special restricktions in games like Binding of Isaac).

If self found games experienced from this point POE self found playstyle is fine and was fine for some time.

It becomes Not fine when expectations are not met by people playing it. And here I see alot of problems not in the game but in the expectations of people. As you correctly pointed out there is no way to equal them out with both present. Well there is but its horrible without measure so lets not go there. If you want to know what it is read about Sacred 3.

Now whether the league with disabled trading/partyying would be viable is another discusion altogether. I think most reasonable would be to ask to try it out in season intermission for starters.

Also about Uniques: I do love them and I dont feel bad whenever I get that Thorn crown on the pure merrit of getting Unique :). But lets be fair GGG was working on the ways of getting more Uniques, without flat out handing them to you, into the game. Last three seasons each added a way to get Unique: Nemesis mod, Strongbox mod and now lvl 8 master shop. Im also not countin guaranied drop special boss Atziri (mainly cause this way means I don't need that Unique most likely :()

Well, it seems we have atleast some level of shared opinion.

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ecogen wrote:

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Zanixx wrote:

As a SF player, I accept that I am placing certain restrictions and/or limitations on my playthrough. As a SF player I know that it is very unlikely I could base a build around a Shavronnes Wrappings for example, simply because what are the chances? If it drops, great - GG to me but until that moment (lol) then its off the table.
You know what? Thats fine.

This mentality is the problem to be completely honest. Why should you have limitations as SF when they can easily be removed by creating a separate league? Would that even bother anyone?

Well, the conversation changes when you start talking about creating new leagues etc. Thats a game changer. I hadn't notice you mention that before so if you did, my bad. If you didn't, then you're saying it just to 'win' :)

Imo, I can see the attraction to a SF league. It would be nice to measure myself against others who play with the same restrictions etc and I feel there is a whole fountain of knowledge out there for the SF players to share however, my biggest fear with this is that it takes up GGG's resources from doing other things. For me, I can quite happily continue in my pursuit of SF grinding as it is.
If they made a SFL would I play it? Yep.
If they don't make a SFL does it disappoint me? Nope.

If/When paid leagues are actually possible and introduced, would I pay for a SF league? Perhaps, depending on cost ofcourse, but I wouldn't fiddle around with the orbs or drop rates or anything. Right now, it feels just about right for a SF player. (would think about changing mapping costs though!)