Why Self Found is Fine: 7 Days of Progress

Startet as a iron-will-maxblock-flameblaster. The Burning Fortress. Was really lucky this far. I guess luck is needed when playing self-found only. Or patience. And your own expectations about the dropps. At least all gems dropped just in time. Still missing Doon Cuebiyari to complete my build, that means trading :/



Haven't found anything better yet. But given time...
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Aelloon wrote:
This thread smells.

It essentially goes like this: self-found is completely fine if you're retardedly lucky.


no, you dont need to be retardedly lucky, you just need to be an average player who is willing to lean and put in the effort. If you are a terrible player who isnt willing to put in the grind or learn what you need to know about the game then yes, you probably wont beat all the content and have great gear, big surprise. Welcome to the real world, you dont get to have everything just for turning up, you have to work for it, and then you still dont get EVERYTHING, but you get enough. Learn to earn 'enough' and be happy with it, stop blaming your lack of effort on the game.

You only get more when you play with others if they are better than you, if you are an equal with the people you party with you get less than you do solo. Once again, learn to play the game and stop hiding behind this solo self found bullshit excuse.
Snorkle, please adress the real problems with self found. Hint: Beating the content is not one of them.

Why is the idea that a self found player can progress in the game at about the same pace as a trading player so bad? After all, that is the pace that the game is designed for.

"You just have to put in enough time to it" stops being a compelling argument when it means 1000s of hours.
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Sickness wrote:
Why is the idea that a self found player can progress in the game at about the same pace as a trading player so bad? After all, that is the pace that the game is designed for.


The game has been designed with trading as a supplementary source for gearing. Its no "so bad" its just not the way of it. When I play PoE (always solo SF) I don't expect to keep up with group play. If pace was an issue, I would group up.

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Sickness wrote:
"You just have to put in enough time to it" stops being a compelling argument when it means 1000s of hours.


Indeed it would. Thank god this "1000s of hours" is just a silly myth put out there by people who don't play SF and who have insufficient experience in playing both with trading and without.
Just for try for see and for know.

She corpse exploded the corpse of the boss...
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Zanixx wrote:
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Sickness wrote:
Why is the idea that a self found player can progress in the game at about the same pace as a trading player so bad? After all, that is the pace that the game is designed for.


The game has been designed with trading as a supplementary source for gearing. Its no "so bad" its just not the way of it. When I play PoE (always solo SF) I don't expect to keep up with group play. If pace was an issue, I would group up.

"
Sickness wrote:
"You just have to put in enough time to it" stops being a compelling argument when it means 1000s of hours.


Indeed it would. Thank god this "1000s of hours" is just a silly myth put out there by people who don't play SF and who have insufficient experience in playing both with trading and without.


But why not design a SF league or mode aswell?


1000s of hours is not a myth. I have played for over 1000 hours, most of them was self found, and I have never found a high tier unique. So if you play SF and want to experience even a few of the fun and interesting builds that 3ex+ uniques can enable then you need to be extremely luck. So for most SF players that will just be a part of the game they will never play.
Yes. I know you think that is fine. But why is it better this way? Why would it not be better if SF was just even a little bit closer to trading?
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Sickness wrote:
Why is the idea that a self found player can progress in the game at about the same pace as a trading player so bad? After all, that is the pace that the game is designed for.


Same reason you can't progress as fast (in practice) on a Beyond character as you can on a Rampage character. Self-found is pretty much a challenge mode, and a lot of self-found players are OK with that.

I wouldn't mind seeing a self-found league with increased quantity/rarity, but GGG is unlikely to ever implement it as no league is supposed to give straight-up advantages over playing in Standard. (Ambush was something of an exception to this with the strongbox bonanza, but that was more beta testing for an upcoming core feature.) It would be plausible to have a self-found league with no magic find bonus, purely for the kudos.

What I'd prefer though is for GGG to simply increase the supply of useful but not best in slot items into the core game. Master crafting is already a huge step in the right direction for rares, but more could perhaps be done with niche unique items (although from what I gather, high-level Masters also sell uniques from time to time if you know what you're looking for). GGG will probably want to see how Masters play out before making any big changes, though. The high-end power items are supposed to be luxuries that take a long time to save up for, but there's a whole band of 'lesser uniques' and rares with OK rolls that veteran traders consider to be weak, only worth an alch or two on the open market, but which currently take a long time to find if you want to pay the iron price. GGG could significantly increase the rate at which these items spawn in all leagues without disrupting the trade economy too much.
Why should SF be a challenge mode? Thats silly. Some people just dont like trading. I dont see the point in punishing them for that. The beauty of the league system is that it is so easy to just make a SF league and make both camps happy. The fact that you cant trade gives a straight-up disadvantage over standard, and the drop rates does not need to be buffed to outweigh trading.

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Sickness wrote:
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Zanixx wrote:
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Sickness wrote:
Why is the idea that a self found player can progress in the game at about the same pace as a trading player so bad? After all, that is the pace that the game is designed for.


The game has been designed with trading as a supplementary source for gearing. Its no "so bad" its just not the way of it. When I play PoE (always solo SF) I don't expect to keep up with group play. If pace was an issue, I would group up.

"
Sickness wrote:
"You just have to put in enough time to it" stops being a compelling argument when it means 1000s of hours.


Indeed it would. Thank god this "1000s of hours" is just a silly myth put out there by people who don't play SF and who have insufficient experience in playing both with trading and without.


But why not design a SF league or mode aswell?


1000s of hours is not a myth. I have played for over 1000 hours, most of them was self found, and I have never found a high tier unique. So if you play SF and want to experience even a few of the fun and interesting builds that 3ex+ uniques can enable then you need to be extremely luck. So for most SF players that will just be a part of the game they will never play.
Yes. I know you think that is fine. But why is it better this way? Why would it not be better if SF was just even a little bit closer to trading?



zanixx is right. Why 1000 hours? Second day of rampage league I was mapping, solo, self found. If it takes you 1000 hours to do what an average scrub like me can do in 2 days you need to learn to play the game, Im not even a good player, a good player would be mapping solo self found on their first play session in a hardcore league if they really wanted to.

Youve played 1000+ hours and never found a high tier unique, well your profile says your highest character level is 85, so you obviously have spent next to no time grinding endgame with well built characters. If you spent 1000 hours repeating normal and cruel over and over again then of course you didnt find a kaoms or a shavs, if you spent 1000 hours grinding endgame and only managed to get to level 85 then you are clearing less content in 1000 hours than other people are clearing in 20. Thats not the games fault, thats not a reason to build you a new league where everything is easier. Only things earned have meaning, if you dont want to earn what you have it would be meaningless to give it to you.

There is no need for an sfl, its all there in the main leagues. If you dont want drop rates buffed then what would you want an slf for? If you do want drop rates buffed you are asking for an easy mode of the game because you cant be bothered to learn how to play the proper game properly. Its just a completely flawed concept that people latch on to as an excuse for why they never get anywhere to avoid the unfortunate reality that they need to actually learn to play the game better. I dont want to be harsh but it needs said, I wish I didnt have to say it but the whole sfl idea needs a serious reality check, its nonsense and Im sick of seeing it endlessly plastered on the forums.


The only way to make a game where self found progresses at the same rate as trading is to make a game where every build needs the same items, as soon as you have items that are good but not for your build, being able to trade them for ones that are good for you will be quicker. I dont understand why the simple logic involved here escapes people.
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Sickness wrote:
But why not design a SF league or mode aswell?


1000s of hours is not a myth. I have played for over 1000 hours, most of them was self found, and I have never found a high tier unique. So if you play SF and want to experience even a few of the fun and interesting builds that 3ex+ uniques can enable then you need to be extremely luck. So for most SF players that will just be a part of the game they will never play.
Yes. I know you think that is fine. But why is it better this way? Why would it not be better if SF was just even a little bit closer to trading?


GGG have said they aren't looking to make a SF league, I believe (this is my opinion) it is because firstly, it costs more money to maintain and waters down the player population further to 5 leagues instead of 4.

You never mentioned 'high tier unique' when you talked about 1000s of hours. Provide a little more clarity next time please, rather than a bear trap?!?!

Well, for me, if I decide to play SF it is with the knowledge that it is very unlikely I will find a high tier unique. Thats ok. I don't mind that. Last league, I found a Searing Touch so I rerolled a Discharger and I loved the fact I found that unique by myself and was now excited to build something around it. That 1-in-a-million chance is an attraction to a lot of SF players, not a hinderance.

You can't play a game, adding your own restrictions (like I do playing SF) and then say the game needs to change to accomodate that. To accomodate your 'need' or 'want' for a unique, you can just trade and tell people you didn't :p
Just for try for see and for know.

She corpse exploded the corpse of the boss...
Well yeah, if they dont think it financially sound thats a very good reason not to do it.

I'm sorry, I didnt mean to cast a bear trap. The discussion has been going on for a few pages and I dont want to repeat myself too many times. But just to clarify: the abyssmal drop rates of uniques is the by far biggest problem with self found and why I dont consider self found to be fine.


I am not saying that the game needs to change. Infact I gave up on playing self found.
But I do believe that the game would become more successful if they added a SF league or mode. It doesnt even have to be free. Tons of players want this.
Last edited by Sickness on Sep 1, 2014, 9:05:52 AM

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