Why Self Found is Fine: 7 Days of Progress

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Zanixx wrote:

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ecogen wrote:

Calculate the time it would take to craft 1 GG item for any slot without trading. Not full inventory mind you just 1, then talk to me about "time investment". I'd rather not die of old age in the process if possible.
The "You will eventually get there" is pure bullshit, sorry to burst your bubble. Oh and if you respond "crafting GG items was meant to be done by trading" just proves my point.

Ecogen, you're missing the point. Playing SF means you are very unlikely to find or craft a GG item. Its not necessary. You don't need any kind of GG item.

You seem to think this game is only enjoyable/playable/completable by having GG items. You're wrong.

So let's just completely remove the option to craft GG items for everyone, no one needs them!

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Sickness wrote:

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Zanixx wrote:

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ecogen wrote:

Calculate the time it would take to craft 1 GG item for any slot without trading. Not full inventory mind you just 1, then talk to me about "time investment". I'd rather not die of old age in the process if possible.
The "You will eventually get there" is pure bullshit, sorry to burst your bubble. Oh and if you respond "crafting GG items was meant to be done by trading" just proves my point.

Ecogen, you're missing the point. Playing SF means you are very unlikely to find or craft a GG item. Its not necessary. You don't need any kind of GG item.

You seem to think this game is only enjoyable/playable/completable by having GG items. You're wrong.

So let's just completely remove the option to craft GG items for everyone, no one needs them!

Why would you want the option removed? weird....

We're talking about the self-found playstyle if you want in on the conversation with some kind of relevance.

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Zanixx wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Zanixx wrote:

Ecogen, you're missing the point. Playing SF means you are very unlikely to find or craft a GG item. Its not necessary. You don't need any kind of GG item.

You seem to think this game is only enjoyable/playable/completable by having GG items. You're wrong.

So let's just completely remove the option to craft GG items for everyone, no one needs them!

Why would you want the option removed? weird....

We're talking about the self-found playstyle if you want in on the conversation with some kind of relevance.

It was (failed) sarcasm.
You are saying that it is fine that a certain feature is unavailible to self found players because they don't need it. But no one needs it, so why should it be availible for anyone?
The answer is that it should be availible because it makes the game more fun and interesting, but that applies to self found aswell.

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Sickness wrote:

Indeed. And playing with what you get now instead of the fun and interesting build defining uniques limits the game. That's why uniques availability is a problem for self found.

Since you quoting my post mayhaps you have read it all? Which point of view your arguments support?

And don't get down the whole telling what is and what is not fun road: Fun is subjective. For me getting upgrade at the end game that ups my dps by 10K is less fun than getting my first white Short Bow in a race.

And frankly if you get no Fun if you are playing with what are you getting now why are you here discussing Self found? Why do you even know about all those "fun and Interesting Build defining Uniques" if you have never seen them drop? Why do you Care?

If im playing Self found nothing EXIST outside of what I have found.

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pofruin wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Indeed. And playing with what you get now instead of the fun and interesting build defining uniques limits the game. That's why uniques availability is a problem for self found.

Since you quoting my post mayhaps you have read it all? Which point of view your arguments support?

I support a self found league.

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pofruin wrote:

And don't get down the whole telling what is and what is not fun road: Fun is subjective. For me getting upgrade at the end game that ups my dps by 10K is less fun than getting my first white Short Bow in a race.

Indeed. That's exactly why I support a self found league.

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pofruin wrote:

And frankly if you get no Fun if you are playing with what are you getting now why are you here discussing Self found? Why do you even know about all those "fun and Interesting Build defining Uniques" if you have never seen them drop? Why do you Care?

How I know? well, there is this thing called the internet...
When I played self found I didn't live in a bubble. All items are on the wiki and it was fun drooling over them and comming up with builds around them until I realised that I would never ever see them drop.

Your position is so illogical. If the items are so inconsequensial then why bother having them ingame at all? why bother making more of them every update?
No, it's obvious that GGG considers them to be "fun and interesting". But like everything else, their aqusition rate is balanced around trading. So unless you trade you will simply miss out, even if you spend lots and lots of time on the game.

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pofruin wrote:

If im playing Self found nothing EXIST outside of what I have found.

Blinders on seems to be the general theme of this thread, yes.

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Sickness wrote:

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pofruin wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Indeed. And playing with what you get now instead of the fun and interesting build defining uniques limits the game. That's why uniques availability is a problem for self found.

Since you quoting my post mayhaps you have read it all? Which point of view your arguments support?

I support a self found league.

You either didn't get the question or willingly chose to ignore it (Blinders eh?).

Ill ask again which kind of self found do you think you represent:

First is Internal: I see the toon im building and gearing him from what I find with only having planed direction from quest rewards and reasonable expectations (Im reasonably gona get 4L. Anything above is Lady Luck smiling on me). This ideology fully understands that it is working with difficulty mods and is having self set goals to achieve.

Second is External: I compare my toon to everyones elses toons and plan him like I would non self found character. Also the goals are set not from personal expectations but rather from what is generaly considered end game at the time. The difficulty of self found is not seen as such but rather others who do not have such limitations are seen as "cheaters".

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Sickness wrote:

How I know? well, there is this thing called the internet...
When I played self found I didn't live in a bubble. All items are on the wiki and it was fun drooling over them and comming up with builds around them until I realised that I would never ever see them drop.

Your position is so illogical. If the items are so inconsequensial then why bother having them ingame at all? why bother making more of them every update?
No, it's obvious that GGG considers them to be "fun and interesting". But like everything else, their aqusition rate is balanced around trading. So unless you trade you will simply miss out, even if you spend lots and lots of time on the game.

Why are you hung on self found then? You long You need those items to have fun in game, but you refuse to get them. Is it realy games problem then?

Cause right now your arguments seem to boil down to "I refuse to Trade because reasons" and therefore "GGG must give me stuff".

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pofruin wrote:

You either didn't get the question or willingly chose to ignore it (Blinders eh?).

Ill ask again which kind of self found do you think you represent:

First is Internal: I see the toon im building and gearing him from what I find with only having planed direction from quest rewards and reasonable expectations (Im reasonably gona get 4L. Anything above is Lady Luck smiling on me). This ideology fully understands that it is working with difficulty mods and is having self set goals to achieve.

Second is External: I compare my toon to everyones elses toons and plan him like I would non self found character. Also the goals are set not from personal expectations but rather from what is generaly considered end game at the time. The difficulty of self found is not seen as such but rather others who do not have such limitations are seen as "cheaters".

I don't represent either of those kinds.
I don't recognise your "scale" as something even remotely accurate. I don't fit in the first, the second or anywhere inbetween.

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pofruin wrote:

Why are you hung on self found then? You long You need those items to have fun in game, but you refuse to get them. Is it realy games problem then?

Cause right now your arguments seem to boil down to "I refuse to Trade because reasons" and therefore "GGG must give me stuff".

I'm not. I don't play self found anylonger. But that doesn't mean that I can't see the problems that self found players face and support a self found league.

Sickness give up man.

The OP must get our point by now, he can't be that dumb. He's just wanting to save face and not admit he was idiotic to post such a ridiculous claim and is trying to justify it with absolute rubbish now and everyone but idiotic morons will see that, so leave him to it.

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Sickness wrote:

I don't represent either of those kinds.
I don't recognise your "scale" as something even remotely accurate. I don't fit in the first, the second or anywhere inbetween.

The first part is rather valid in that I crafted the scale as extreme version and people should just generally fall in-between. The grouping of various features is also a problem so lets separate it then?

What do you think of self found: Should Self found be more difficult than playing with trading on?
Does other peoples experience with the game affect your enjoyment with the game?
When planning a build do you research what gems your chosen class can get from quest rewards as primary source of the build?
What are your expectations on the gem and gear acquisition as you go?
What is your goal when you play? This one is bit more tricky in that it's interesting knowing both progress expectation and time played to get there.

Oh and pengant please do not derail this discussion with terms as "Idiotic", "ridiculous claim" or "absolute rubbish". None of that matter nor add anything to the discussion. And I did try to be as polite as possible in my posts.

You're playing a caster, which is inherently less gear-dependent and more suited to self-found. Not hating: I enjoyed an Arc build the very same way. Otherwise, I'm actually inclined to agree that self-found is better than it's ever been. But I'll be convinced that self-found is fine the moment someone self-finds a DW CI Claw build -- or heck, any CI Melee build -- into existence. I'm trying one ATM and fuck me it's tough.