Why Self Found is Fine: 7 Days of Progress

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pengant wrote:

but unrelated to what the OP was saying. OP's point is 'look at all the shiney stuff i've found by myself, that must mean everyone else playing self-found will be equally as successfull' - Which as i've explained is complete and utter rubbish.

Again, all of the "shiny stuff I've found by myself", is completely useless to my main. It wouldn't be useless if I traded, but I don't trade. But it doesn't matter, because my main is successful even without using that shiny stuff. If you had read the post you'd know this, instead you're allowing your biases to filter out information you don't like.

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Septile wrote:

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pengant wrote:

but unrelated to what the OP was saying. OP's point is 'look at all the shiney stuff i've found by myself, that must mean everyone else playing self-found will be equally as successfull' - Which as i've explained is complete and utter rubbish.

Again, all of the "shiny stuff I've found by myself", is completely useless to my main. It wouldn't be useless if I traded, but I don't trade. But it doesn't matter, because my main is successful even without using that shiny stuff. If you had read the post you'd know this, instead you're allowing your biases to filter out information you don't like.

Huh?

I wasn't specifically referring to any particular items, just your gear in general that you found for your main self-found character.

Your post is pretty much :-

1. Here is my gear
2. Because i've got this gear, this proves self-found league is fine

And as i've said before, how can you possibly believe that when using yourself as the only source of data?? I'm confused.

If you'd of said here is my gear, i'm doing fine in self-found and so can you then no one would be having any issues. The fact that you made such a bold statement in your post and post title though is a different story and as i've said before, it's complete rubbish.

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pengant wrote:

If you'd of said here is my gear, i'm doing fine in self-found and so can you then no one would be having any issues.

That's literally what I said.
Self found is fine = I am fine doing it, anybody can be fine doing it.

Instead of being pendantic towards the OP and his 'phrasing', recognise this is yet another thread showing that SF isn't some unachievable, rarely accomplished achievement.

Its really fun but wont be for everyone.

SF pre exp was absolutely fine until around the early to mid 80's imo.
Now with the introduction of the Masters, it has become very very comfortable and I look forward to seeing how endgame is.

Getting to low-mid maps was never a challenge self found. If you believe that people want a self found league because the game is too hard then you are mistaken. The real problem with self found atm is that builds and content is gated behind RNG. There are PLENTY of fun and interesting uniques to make a build around that will never drop for most players, and good luck running high level maps without trading, grouping or spending 10x more time in content that is too low to challenge you.

Sure, you can kill dominus on merciless, no problem. You can start maping, no problem. But it still feels like you are not playing the complete game. That is why self found is not fine.

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Septile wrote:

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pengant wrote:

If you'd of said here is my gear, i'm doing fine in self-found and so can you then no one would be having any issues.

Self found is fine = I am fine doing it

No it doesn't.

Like the other guy said earlier if I touch a shark and don't get bitten does that mean everyone else who touches a shark will have the same fortune?

Do you really believe this rubbish? seriously?!

I honestly don't believe you are this stupid. I think you made a mistake making that point and now are trying to excuse it. Just admit you have no idea whether it's fine for everyone or not and leave it at that.

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Sickness wrote:

Getting to low-mid maps was never a challenge self found. If you believe that people want a self found league because the game is too hard then you are mistaken. The real problem with self found atm is that builds and content is gated behind RNG. There are PLENTY of fun and interesting uniques to make a build around that will never drop for most players, and good luck running high level maps without trading, grouping or spending 10x more time in content that is too low to challenge you.

Sure, you can kill dominus on merciless, no problem. You can start maping, no problem. But it still feels like you are not playing the complete game. That is why self found is not fine.

I think self-found is mostly fine, but there are some valid points here:

1. Certain uniques (not the 'raw power' ones, the ones with special mods) open up new aspects of the game that are rarely available to self-found players.

I'm not a big fan of unique items to be honest - the name is something of a lie (there's nothing 'unique' about everyone wearing a Shavronne's Wrappings, but unmirrored rare items really can be one of a kind), and they're very difficult to balance properly without making them pointless or destroying item diversity (this is something the devs have frequently got wrong). I'd rather GGG figured out a way to make more of these 'build-enabling' mods available through crafting (with some appropriate drawback) so that you don't absolutely need the unique. This is already coming in - e.g. there are many interesting Corrupted mods (buff Vaal Orb drop rate please!), and Vagan can give you some ersatz Facebreakers.

Low-life builds are the most glaring example of this. There's a whole class of builds out there, with plenty of variety to them, but they're utterly dependent on unique mods. If these are supposed to be weirdo niche builds, why is there a low-life keystone? 'X happens on low life' needs to be brought fully into the mainstream, with affixes on rare items (not as OP as the ones we have on current uniques, but at least something decent, e.g. 'Chaos resist on low life' has obvious uses). That way you can actually build towards low-life without playing the game of combining as may gimmicky uniques as you can get hold of.

2. Super-hard levels like high maps with brutal mods and (Uber) Atziri are too difficult for self-found.

I'm not sad about the high maps - they're like low maps, but harder (and actually there aren't that many types of high maps compared to the low ones). You miss out on a few boss fights, but most map bosses are based on quest bosses anyway. (Uber) Atziri was specifically created as a challenge encounter for the top powergamers, so it's no surprise that she's off-limits for self-found players.

3. If you don't actually find enough maps, you're stuck doing what becomes trivial content in Act 3 Merciless.

This is potentially a big problem. It definitely needs to be easier to keep finding maps to run once you are at a stage where maps are the only challenging part of the game. I would give a guaranteed map drop for killing the map boss (not necessarily a good map, but at least some map), so you only get punished for messing up and not finishing the map.


None of these would actually require a self-found league, because you could make the necessary changes in the core game without destroying the trade in high-end items.

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Sickness wrote:

The real problem with self found atm is that builds and content is gated behind RNG.

Yeah, and? There is plenty of content and plenty of builds that are not gated behind RNG. If someone plays the slots and seriously gets mad that they didn't win the jackpot, then they're idiots. And everybody knows it.

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Sickness wrote:

Sure, you can kill dominus on merciless, no problem. You can start maping, no problem. But it still feels like you are not playing the complete game.

So unless you 100% a game, it doesn't feel like you're playing a complete game? So if I had 80% completion on Batman:Arkham City, I should actually feel like I didn't play the complete game, even if I was already satisfied with the content I had played through?

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pengant wrote:

No it doesn't.

Like the other guy said earlier if I touch a shark and don't get bitten does that mean everyone else who touches a shark will have the same fortune?

Do you really believe this rubbish? seriously?!

I honestly don't believe you are this stupid. I think you made a mistake making that point and now are trying to excuse it. Just admit you have no idea whether it's fine for everyone or not and leave it at that.

lol ok. My build is not doing fine with easily achievable gear, I am not finding any good drops, I do not know how to video game.

Blinders on I see. If I say that I dont like something, telling me that I should like it is not a meaningful response. It just shows that you cant look at the issue from my perspective.

Since you went after my opinions and not the reasons behind those opinions it seems that my post was spot on.

The pot calling the kettle black.