Daggers.. #1 in dps... #1 in crit... #1 in passive tree... am I missing something?

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LSN wrote:

It is not all about st.

Oops, my bad - with only 2 mods on the dagger you can also get 1 million Double Strike, 3 million Reave etc...

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LSN wrote:

The issue remains as I have stated:

loath bane 555 dps with 34% higher crit chance
similar sword/axe 550 dps without this crit chance increase.

There is a very very fundamental reason this is that all of you are missing.

Take Carrion Bite for ex, 550 sword - how much is it worth? 1.5k exalts b/o set by Ventor.

How about Loath Bane? Axn just spent 7000 exalts without success on a wand which has the same mod chance as a dagger without success.

The cost of daggers is at least 5x that of swords/axes/maces. In this game, the more ex you put in, the better it is.

You are a dagger user/owner that is here to defend your dagger. That is alright but it doesnt help us much with the balance discussion in this thread.


Daggers might be able to stay on top of the food change without being as op as they are.

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LSN wrote:

You are a dagger user/owner that is here to defend daggers. That is alright but it doesnt help us with the balance discussion of this game.

I'm actually neither and I'm not defending daggers.

You guys are seriously biased and don't look at the whole picture.

Read my last post and tell me that is not how GGG balances this game. And in addition, ad hominem comments don't tend to carry a lot of weight with me.

It is kind of not important what random crafting costs you throw in here. Crafting is rng based and prices (e.g. those of carrion bite) don't relate with crafting costs of the actual item but with the current market value of the item.

As there are 2-3 other swords out there, anyway everything is about daggers in this game and ventor got his crafting costs back with mirror fees long time ago, he might just want to sell it way below crafting costs just to get rid of it (this is the whole picture that you are talking of).


Daggers are more difficult to craft but the increased crit chance and all the benefits that come with it outweigh it several times. They don't need to be as much overpowered as they are in order to stay on top of the food chain.


What you are defending is a endgame that is right now solely built around those weapons that give the highest crit scaling (as you have mentioned yourself) which are daggers and wands and everything else is left behind.

I want a game where 2h and other 1h weapons can get similar results. The damage that daggers provide is way off. It is way too strong for the existing content in the game. The game content is not balanced around daggers, but these overpowered daggers exist. Therefore they need to get nerfed instead of others being buffed. This doesnt mean daggers should get weaker than all the above mentioned.

Therefore I suggested physical base dps (achieved with a bit of attack speed nerfing and some physical damage nerfing) for ambushers. As you mentioned yourself this wont have the huge effect it looks like as daggers are about crit chance scaling and aura damage as well. So I don't understand your problem.

I suggest a slight nerf and you respond that it wont have any effect. Then you say it should not get nerfed at all because its more expensive to craft. I don't know for what reason you are here but obviously not for the reaons you admit.

Now I guess I got the whole picture quite well, which you don't.

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LSN wrote:

prices (e.g. those of carrion bite) don't relate with crafting costs of the actual item but with the current market value of the item.

Bullshit. Carrion Bite is 1500 exalts and that is that. Similar RT mace was around 200 eternals I believe.

Someone did the maths and Loath Bane takes on average 5000 exalts to make.

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LSN wrote:

What you are defending is a endgame that is right now soley built around those weapons that give the highest crit scaling (as you have mentioned yourself) which are daggers and wands and everything else is left behind.

I'm defending an endgame where more time and investment spent = a better build. Feel free to suggest nerfs but there is something seriously wrong when people say they should be the same when quite clearly one is more expensive. Feel free to say it should be worse than it is but quite clearly it should be better than everything else.

And please guys, let's not be melodramatic and say daggers or uninstall PoE.

So what you suggest instead?

Keep the game on daggers and wands? Letting all the 2hands and other 1hands be as useless as they are compared to this stuff?

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And please guys, let's not be melodramatic and say daggers or uninstall PoE.

When I look at your profile you have a scion in hc and sc. So you wanna tell me these both are non dagger scions?

You are obviously here to defend your dagger build. Thats your whole picture.

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LSN wrote:

So what you suggest instead?

Keep the game on daggers and wands? Letling all the 2hand and other 1hands be as useless as they are compared to this stuff?

Yes, daggers and wands should be #1 - more cost = better in this game and the more cost is BUILT INTO THE BASE.

However, don't say other 2 hands and 1 hands are useless - that is simply not true. My mate right now is doing RT Dual Strike with Wings and has 28k Dual Strike, bosses die in seconds.

RT 2h Cyclone builds as done by Scary etc one shot packs with a click. There is simply a limit on how much DPS is actually useful.

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Chundadragon wrote:

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LSN wrote:

So what you suggest instead?

Keep the game on daggers and wands? Letling all the 2hand and other 1hands be as useless as they are compared to this stuff?

Yes, daggers and wands should be #1 - more cost = better in this game and the more cost is BUILT INTO THE BASE.

However, don't say other 2 hands and 1 hands are useless - that is simply not true. My mate right now is doing RT Dual Strike with Wings and has 28k Dual Strike, bosses die in seconds.

RT 2h Cyclone builds as done by Scary etc one shot packs with a click. There is simply a limit on how much DPS is actually useful.

It is great that you talk about 28k dual strike builds while I mentioned 400k+ reave dagger builds (which is aoe by nature btw.). It furthermore shows how much off you are.


Yes 28k, 50k and even 70k is useless compared to 420k. You seem not to understand the point of all this. Try getting 420k dps reave with the same survivability on a 2hand axe or 1hand axe build. You will have a hard time getting 1/3 of this.

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LSN wrote:

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And please guys, let's not be melodramatic and say daggers or uninstall PoE.

When I look at your profile you have a scion in hc and sc. So you wanna tell me these both are non dagger scions?

You are obviously here to defend your dagger build. Thats your whole picture.

You want to see the gear?

HC Scion:



Buzzsaw

SC Scion:



RF Arc