People do realise that Daggers do more damage than 2Handers because of crit right?

"

Autocthon wrote:

Screw the penalty stipulation unless you also happen to buff auras for 2H weapons.

you can do all kinds of things, but the point is Spectral Throw allows you to reap all the rewards from using a melee weapon, without actually being melee (with all the risks involved).
so a buff to base damage of 2-handers, should also make sure it won't be exploited by people who aren't the "target audience" of said buff.

btw, Resolute Technique should also have a nice phys damage bonus, or life bonus, or res bonus, or leech bonus, whatever.
to make going "no crits" more appealing.

"

DirkAustin wrote:

So, whats the point of this thread? That we all just use daggers and no other weapons?

Oh, this is one of those, "look my crit dagger build killz stuff faster than yours" e brag threads.

People are thinking that the core source of an issue is something that isn't the (primary) problem.

In CB doing a million DPS wit ha dagger wasn't broken because you were stuck dealing with enemies one by one considerably slowing your items/second compared to doing a million DPS with ST.

The core damage issues as things stand are...

1) ST is an unlimited AoE ranged attack that hits (and crits) multiple times per use.
2) Daggers have excessively high flat damage mods
3) Elemental Auras are excessively effective with fast weapons.

If the flat damage from auras was normalized to AS Buzzsaw would become (essentially) AS agnostic. If ST couldn't hit an upwards of 5 times against a single target then buzzsaw DPS wouldn't be so imposing. If Daggers didn't have disproportionate base DPS then daggers wouldn't be end-all DPS choices.

Don't think you guys understand what you're talking about when you say "buff 2h weapons"

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/943681

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/851184

Notice DPS difference. Never been 2h's base damage that's been the problem.

Differences have always been crit/non-crit.

"

Don't think you guys understand what you're talking about when you say "buff 2h weapons"

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/943681

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/851184

Notice DPS difference. Never been 2h's base damage that's been the problem.

2-hand damage is not the problem.

And in no way would buffing 2-hand damage fix this issue or even help 2-hand players in the game. (in reality it would slow them down and put them in even MORE danger)

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Autocthon wrote:

If the flat damage from auras was normalized to AS Buzzsaw would become (essentially) AS agnostic. If ST couldn't hit an upwards of 5 times against a single target then buzzsaw DPS wouldn't be so imposing. If Daggers didn't have disproportionate base DPS then daggers wouldn't be end-all DPS choices.

That would just be a straight 2h buff to pile on the aura-shit onto the higher phys base weapon. No difference.

Daggers don't have disproportionate base DPS, they are retardedly difficult to roll more than 300 onto and have the same as mirror swords when mirror quality.

"

Chundadragon wrote:

"

Autocthon wrote:

If the flat damage from auras was normalized to AS Buzzsaw would become (essentially) AS agnostic. If ST couldn't hit an upwards of 5 times against a single target then buzzsaw DPS wouldn't be so imposing. If Daggers didn't have disproportionate base DPS then daggers wouldn't be end-all DPS choices.

That would just be a straight 2h buff to pile on the aura-shit onto the higher phys base weapon. No difference.

You're assuming that the normalization would increase the damage on the auras for 2H relative to what it is now. I never said such.

Let's imagine the damage for 2H doesn;t change, and normalizes roughly 1:1 with base AS of weapons. Suddenly the DPS gains off auras are consistent, and since auras stack to be such a huge amount of total DPS you're normalizing AS out of the equation for buzzsaw and similar builds (within reasonable bounds).

"

Daggers don't have disproportionate base DPS, they are retardedly difficult to roll more than 300 onto and have the same as mirror swords when mirror quality.

Their top end is disproportionate. Though really IMO all fast weapons have disproportionate base DPS, it just happens that daggers get the best of all worlds (Speed, Crit, Base Damage) at their top end.

Reducing their damage rolls a small bit would make a huge difference given that they have the speed to scale off flat bonuses across gear and the crit to scale off multiplier.

Of course the core question is...

"Are daggers doing too much damage or is everything else doing too little?"

and secondary to that is

"Are auras providing too much of player DPS, or are they providing the correct amount?"

Not going to say "my solution is the bets solution" or demand you agree. Just saying that you can;t assume that my solution reasoning is going to be a direct buff to 2H and aura use (when it was meant as a net neutral and nerf respectively).

There also aren't that many skills that benefit from having a slow heavy hitting attack.

Flicker strike is about the only attack I can think of that really benefits from doing more damage in a single hit rather then more damage over a bunch of hits.

Possibly adding skills for 2 handed weapons only would help I mean ground slam is pretty close but even that benefits greatly from a faster weapon.

"

Chundadragon wrote:

Don't think you guys understand what you're talking about when you say "buff 2h weapons"

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/943681

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/851184

Notice DPS difference. Never been 2h's base damage that's been the problem.

Differences have always been crit/non-crit.

wait, did you just seriously compare the godly, mirrored, possibly-best-in-game 2-handed axe to a Soul Taker? a weapon which key property is the "no mana cost" rather than DPS or APS?

compare the godly #1 2-hander to a #1 dagger or a #1 sword/axe - and you'll see the base (non-crit) damage difference isn't that great.
or better yet, compare an average 2-hander and an average 1-hander with roughly the same phys and attack speed rolls.

and considering the #1 dagger may possibly outclass the #1 2-hander due to sheer APS - without even mentioning the crit - that's plain ridiculous.
more damage AND a shield, or Dual-Wield for even more damage AND block...

so I repeat: buff the hell out of 2-hander base damage.
there is honestly no reason, why even the level 66 Despot Axe should need a phys roll to exceed the 100 min damage mark. white high-level 2-hander doing 83–112 phys...

"

Autocthon wrote:

Of course the core question is...

"Are daggers doing too much damage or is everything else doing too little?"

and secondary to that is

"Are auras providing too much of player DPS, or are they providing the correct amount?"

Not going to say "my solution is the bets solution" or demand you agree. Just saying that you can;t assume that my solution reasoning is going to be a direct buff to 2H and aura use (when it was meant as a net neutral and nerf respectively).

I'd say everything else too little and aura too much.

Tbh, I'm getting bored of aura stacking - hopefully the patch brings out something new and changes the game significantly.

The real answer to your question is holy shit, how the fuck do I get so much DPS out of my weapon when all I have on my buzzsaw foil is Attack Speed and all I have on my dagger is Attack Speed and Crit with no phys/no investment that's punishing?