Has GGG given official word on if they'll fix desync?
" 1. Predictions client-side do not open any exploits at all. If they opened up exploits they wouldn't be predictions. That's why it's a prediction, it's predicting what's happening server-side, it's not determining what's happening server-side. A prediction can not, by definition, open up an exploit. 2. An entirely different networking model would fix it while having equal protections against exploits and hacks as the current model. A model that waits for the server, used in pretty much every MOBA which often feature many of the same mechanics (including chance to hit, stuns, evasion, block etc.) PoE has. Now this model has other downsides (quality of play reduces greatly with higher pings) but the sad part is that each of those downsides is also present in PoE frankly horrible implementation of the client-side prediction model. PoE also becomes very much a pain to play with pings above 200, just like the alternative. Desync itself can't be fixed in the current networking model, there are alternatives that are widely used in other games that don't suffer from desync but do suffer from high pings. PoE's implementation of this networking model unfortunately suffers from both desync AND high pings. It's literally the worst of both worlds right now. My vision for a better PoE: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/863780
|
|
|
Desync can't be fixed, since the game is fast paced enough that even with a perfect <30ms latency to the server, you can always perform certain actions on the client before the server has updated to react to those changes.
This means that the server will always be n milliseconds (where n equals your ping) behind the client, this means that in all cases the server will always have to try to predict the player's actions n milliseconds into the future, often times this is trivial, i.e the player clicked "move to this spot", then the server can safely assume the player will move along that path, and if they suddenly decide to change direction in those n milliseconds the server is behind the client, the impact is minimal. The problem begins once n starts to become a fairly large number, then the server-side prediction of the players actions become more and more inaccurate, you would see the same thing happening if the server started dropping packages coming from the client, the more packages drop the more the server gets out of sync with the client. The thing about desyncs is that it'll tend to be a cascading effect, like the client and server disagrees on the position of either the player or a single monster, now every prediction and every action by the player that bases on that date (position of player or monster) will have different outcomes, that means that from that point on the server simulation and the client simulation will diverge, that is when we start seeing the desync effects most people like to whine incessantly about. This is just the nature of the game as it is right now. I could imagine some things that might help, like maybe make the server better at deciding when it is desynced and must faster at throwing out resync requests, however this would probably mean players would see even more rubber banding than they currently do. Another way would be to develop and implement a way more accurate predictive model for player behavior, but then we're talking about algorithmicly predicting human behavior, something which is decidedly non-trivial. Point is, fixing desync is not a simple task, someone will have to be really, really clever for a fairly long amount of time, and many of the things they'll try to 'improve' desync will probably make it worse or no better. Eventually, they'll do something that might work or they'll give up. Either way, the process will not be fast. I think a good start would be to actually find out what desync *is*, if I had to venture a guess this is what GGG are currently doing, going to server metrics and logs and their code looking for stuff that'll cause desync and going 'hmm how we fix?'. This is gonna take forever. Closed beta member since: March 19, 2012
|
|
|
U guys shud make threads like this. GGG aint capable to fix it. Quit like me.
|
|
" No there aren't many popular games online where you can miss in the way you do in PoE. In PoE you can dodge an attack that has been initiated. This is not common in online games (there are some, but not in this genre). The reason is that there are only two different ways of mitigating the problems this can cause. --- 1. The easiest solution is to increase the rate at which the game syncs. Needless to say this is incredibly expensive. Apparently not even a company the size of blizzard can do this in a way that is sustainable (or maybe they just thought it was a pointless expense that wasn't worth it). This doesn't completely prevent desync from occuring anyway since you will still have a certain latency due to physical restrictions. 2. The second way is to make the server predict what you are going to do. Obviously this is not an easy thing to do and any time when an error occurs it will very likely snowball and introduce further errors. When the game notices this it forces a resync making the client adopt the state which the server is currently in. --- Now, since GGG is aware that this cannot ever be completely fixed and only improved upon, they left a measure of choice in the hand of the player instead. This by making it so that you can more easily tell if a desync is occuring (this is also not an unlikely reason why some older players might feel it happens more often) and even force a resync with /oos. Obviously there is a limit to how often you can do that due to the problems mentioned in 1 above. Playing in a way that reduces the chance of getting desync might seem like a hassle but it's better than nothing. Sure there are ways to completely negate problems with desync, but these all would compromise the game mechanincs and the way it plays. GGG does not find this acceptable and thinks desync is the lesser evil. Incidentally I agree with them. |
|
|
in dota you can:
dodge miss be frozen stunned astraled hexed eul'd blocked by hero in tight passage blocked by mobs No desync ever alt art shop view-thread/1195695
t.me/jstqw for contact | |
|
They said they will improve the netcode several times.
|
|
" Sure they will, maybe for PoE 2. IGN TylordRampage
|
|
" Dota also has a 'wait for server' model and many many cooldowns, if you had just as much stuff on screen and as few cool down and as many instant procs in dota as you have in PoE, you'd be seeing a lot more lag. Except in DOTA it wouldn't manifest as desyncs, but as freezes and and lag. Closed beta member since: March 19, 2012
|
|
" Oh there is desync I assure you, you just don't see it. And due to the fact that Valve and GGG have chosen different ways of mitigating this particular problem they manifest very differently. And no you can't dodge attacks through movement the same way as in PoE, at least not for basic attacks. It is determined the moment when they are used whether or not they hit. Same for all targeting attacks of which there is a considerable number in DotA. There are no such things in PoE. DotA also has a completely different problem that PoE doesn't have at all. It is commonly called delay, a problem GGG didn't like. This is due to the client having to wait for the servers go ahead before an action is put through. In PoE you can react instantly to any situation (in case of desync this might go awry though). This means that predictions are much easier to make and problems when they occur are more quickly dealt with. To the point where you just don't see it. It might also be that there is a difference in the amount of calculations that typically need to be done that can cause problems. I also find it likely that Valve has more resources to handle problems. GGG isn't that large a company (it definitely wasn't when all these basic things were ironed out) so they probably have less room to move around possible problems. But we know of none of those particulars so it's impossible to say without becoming an employee. |
|
" Yet you still hang around here on a site of a game you don't play /facepalm Nothing to see here.
|
|
