The most overused strawman on these forums: "RNG is RNG"

"RNG is RNG" usually misses the point, and complaining about the phrase does, too.

Dry patches are a result of RNG, and debating whether or not 50 hours or an individual person's experience mean anything is tedious. They don't, but that's not the point, either. They all miss the point because the dissatisfaction and the feeling of not getting rewarded are not fundamentally rooted in the random aspect of the game.

The core issues are different and only marginally related to RNG. To list a few:

- Probabilities: The chance to get 6L (6S as well) is too low, so the needed amount of fuses has a too wide range. You may need 1 or 20,000 orbs to get the desired result. (The drop rates of J and F orbs are inappropriately low for this design.)

- The pool of possible mods for high ilvl gear is too large and not biased enough: You get too much junk because the probability to get matching or even useful mods is far too low. (The drop rates of the related orbs are inappropriately low for this design.)

- Bosses and mobs have too large treasure tables: You get low level uniques from high end bosses and can't reliable narrow down where you farm. As a result, you feel like you never get anything good because you have no real control over what you might get. Sockets potential aside, it isn't fun to get the same unique on a level 78 map that you got on the beach at level 3. (The drop rates of high ilvl uniques are inappropriately low for this design, and there is too much niche/junk cluttering the treasure tables.)

So, it's not about RNG. It's about the design.

"

Mivo wrote:

"RNG is RNG" usually misses the point, and complaining about the phrase does, too.

Dry patches are a result of RNG, and debating whether or not 50 hours or an individual person's experience mean anything is tedious. They don't, but that's not the point, either. They all miss the point because the dissatisfaction and the feeling of not getting rewarded are not fundamentally rooted in the random aspect of the game.

The core issues are different and only marginally related to RNG. To list a few:

- Probabilities: The chance to get 6L (6S as well) is too low, so the needed amount of fuses has a too wide range. You may need 1 or 20,000 orbs to get the desired result. (The drop rates of J and F orbs are inappropriately low for this design.)

- The pool of possible mods for high ilvl gear is too large and not biased enough: You get too much junk because the probability to get matching or even useful mods is far too low. (The drop rates of the related orbs are inappropriately low for this design.)

- Bosses and mobs have too large treasure tables: You get low level uniques from high end bosses and can't reliable narrow down where you farm. As a result, you feel like you never get anything good because you have no real control over what you might get. Sockets potential aside, it isn't fun to get the same unique on a level 78 map that you got on the beach at level 3. (The drop rates of high ilvl uniques are inappropriately low for this design, and there is too much niche/junk cluttering the treasure tables.)

So, it's not about RNG. It's about the design.

How are the "core issues" you list in any way a product of anything other than your individual experience?

- 6s/6l is, by design and intent, hard to get. This is because of just how insanely powerful 5L and 6L skills can be. The game was not, repeat not, balanced around 6L skills. It is stupidly easy to 4L, which, as I understand it, was the balance point for skills/support. This is working as intended. Most children get frustrated when they don't get what they want, and typically take for granted that they have what they need (and generally a bit more).

- Exceptionally well-rolled rares are, as the name implies, rare. Again, the game is not balanced around having max tier rolls on the highest base items.

- See the above for response to loot table argument. Same arguments apply.


You come very close to awareness with "They all miss the point because the dissatisfaction and the feeling of not getting rewarded are not fundamentally rooted in the random aspect of the game." but fail, IMO, to take the next step and admit that the frustrations are rooted in what may or may not be unrealistic expectations on the part of the player. You then go on to detail that you expect to have access to 6s/6l, "better" drops, and high end uniques and pass off those arguments as "objective truth" (quoted to display that the term does not apply in your situation).

You are right about the design, the design is to frustrate those players that expect anything more than "the unforgiving world of Wraeclast." If GGG had legitimately given us reason to expect something more than that, then these arguments might hold water.

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

How are the "core issues" you list in any way a product of anything other than your individual experience?

It isn't "an experience" that high level mobs have loot tables that include uniques that drop at the beach in normal.

It isn't "an experience" that you can alch/etc a high ilvl item and get +2 Light Radius or +3 Physical Damage Reflected.

It isn't "an experience" that the probability to get 6L per fuse is extremely low.

You can verify each of these design aspects.

Essentially i agree to most points Mivo. Usually i compile those point you made as drop rates, but it would be more accurate to call them reward rates.

It is posts about that which are often dismissed and thought attacked with "RNG is RNG".

it is either he doesn't understand it

or he Chooses not to understand it . I very much doubt, that with the number of threads he has taken part in, that he doesn't grasp the concept.


but he and a small minority always seem to conveniently miss interpret the underlying concept as some evil machination to make poe easier .

with out fail , every time.

I have explained the actual point several times to him , and inevitably it is discarded.

it really is like arguing with a prerecorded message . no matter what you say or do , it will just say the same thing.

"

Mivo wrote:

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

How are the "core issues" you list in any way a product of anything other than your individual experience?

It isn't "an experience" that high level mobs have loot tables that include uniques that drop at the beach in normal.

It isn't "an experience" that you can alch/etc a high ilvl item and get +2 Light Radius or +3 Physical Damage Reflected.

It isn't "an experience" that the probability to get 6L per fuse is extremely low.

You can verify each of these design aspects.

I don't deny the existence of the above stated design aspects. I admit they exist and openly embrace them.

What you listed are objective realities:

-As you progress in game the possible pool from which items can drop continues to grow, with the only drops possible being those with ilvl and mod tiers of equal or lesser value than the map level in which they drop.

-As items increase in ilvl the possible pool of affixes that can roll on them continues to grow as described above. No "floor" only the map level "ceiling".

-By design, orb usage will generate results that look like a bell curve. Low distributions on the very high and low ends, much higher distributions in the middle. Probabilities for top-end variances (socketing, linking, mod rolls) are very, very small, also by design. Again, balance concerns.

These are Truth in PoE. That you appear to have issues with them is based on your subjective perception of your experiences with the Truth. Your subjective perceptions are of no consequence to the game design.

Discussion about whether these objective truths are either "good" or "bad" is going to be laden with subjectivity, as each person experiences the Truth in a different way.

Again, how are what *you* see as "core issues" not a product of your subjective experience?

In other words we are back to this from earlier in the thread:

"

A Glimpse into the mind of Sinnesteuer:

The basic Premise in Sinnesteuer's mind is that GGG is always right. That is the core principle.

Therefore,

Anything that goes against GGG is wrong.
Any problems players may have with GGG's choices are the player's own problems.
Anyone that has any unmet expectations automatically brought it upon themselves (accept or gtfo).

That is all. Don't waste your time on it.