The most overused strawman on these forums: "RNG is RNG"

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Oh sure everyone give Charan the love :(

I got enough love for everyone .... here you have some too. =P


On topic.

RNG is RNG is mostly used as a reply to an argument when someone CBFd actually replying intelligently to or is mostly oblivious/ignorant to the actual core of the problem being discussed.


RNG is RNG adds zero wealth to a discussion about RNG and one may as well write,I GOT CHICKEN,it amounts to the same *eye rolling* parting of knowledge or opinion on the subject.

RNG is RNG ....Yawn

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

Soon we'll have entire threads with "[Removed by Support]". Then the mods will be happy.
When everything and everyone is under their censorship thumb.

They'd just delete those, and you won't have to worry about seeing it.

Maybe you won't even know it's happened.

Censorship is inevitable; you don't have freedom of speech here, thus the guidelines. Question is, would you rather it be visible censorship, or invisible?

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'RNG is RNG' is only a straw man argument if it's a fallacy used to unfairly inflate the case against the other side. And in a lot of cases, it isn't.

Example:

A: I hate that I never get item 'X' to drop! It's not fair!
B: RNG is RNG.

As Witt pointed out, that's a tautology. But it's not straw man, because the random nature of drops is the reason for person A not getting item X. The next item they get might just be it. There is some logical follow-through from A's claim to B's response. It's essentially saying 'tough luck, but you know how it is.'

but:

A: I hate that I never get item 'X' to drop! It's not fair!
B: we need RNG because without it there'd be no reason to keep playing, and everyone would quit because they'd get all the items they want immediately!

That *is* using RNG as a straw man argument, because while person A is arguing for a change in the magnitude of the situation, person B is making it a black and white situation, ignoring that even RNG can have scale and degrees affected by probability and range. What person B misses is that while 'RNG is RNG', you still have more chance of rolling a 6 on a six-sided dice than on a twenty-sided one...but it's still 'RNG'.

Oh hey, someone who actually understands what a straw man argument is and agrees that the statement "RNG is RNG" isnt a straw man.

+1

The point is that among strawmen used on these forums, "RNG is RNG" is probably the most common of them, which is why it is the most overused strawman around here.

That does not relate to whether it is used correct in 95% of the cases, but only deals with its relative abundance in comparison to other strawmen. Furthermore it is the most damaging strawman due to it's abundance and state of acceptance, we even have smart / old supporters using it blindly here and there. It is a trend on these forums to neglect points by just insinuating that people are mad at the RNG, a negative trend that causes misinformation or at the very least makes it harder to figure out what the essence of a discussion is. You know it very well, trolls always start talking about random stuff, making the discussions less constructive, which is exactly what happens when these people come in and state it all over. It is an attack on a conjured position, misleading the unaware reader.

That being said, the number of times i see it used right is far below that number of times i find it used to neglect the acual point of a thread. Maybe it is because i rarely open threads like: "omg farmed 200h didnt find X specific item i was looking for" etc.

Updated OP, finally got back...

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Gallowmere1984 wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Oh hey, someone who actually understands what a straw man argument is and agrees that the statement "RNG is RNG" isnt a straw man.

+1

I blame the internet. It's kind of like how every idiot uses the words 'irony' or 'ironic' without having any clue what it actually means. /shrug

But yeah, thanks for that post Charan.

Yes it's when something has similar properties to Iron! Now where is cookeeh!?

Watching Crackmonster backpeddle in order to maintain a misguided argument is some of the best entertainment I can find.

This thread delivers, faster than the local Chinese joint. Of course, it contains about as much substantive "nutrition" as well.

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Watching Crackmonster backpeddle in order to maintain a misguided argument is some of the best entertainment I can find.

This thread delivers, faster than the local Chinese joint. Of course, it contains about as much substantive "nutrition" as well.

considering you are among the people charan is referring too as using rng is rng as a straw man ,I am not at all surprised at your response .

one could even say your post has even less substance than the threads you strive so hard to insult and belittle.

Bitch fight inbound in 3....2....


Why so negative guys, is it so hard to not post? :D

Don't waste time on it, it's pure personal attacks little else. I sent him a pm instead with what i wanted to reply in here. :P

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Isbox1 wrote:

tell me exactly why you feel RNG is RNG and what that actually means to you.

I feel that the Random Number Generator is a Random Number Generator because it generates random numbers.

What does it mean to me? It means that some numbers are random.

to me it means that ultimately things come down to chance and that ideally the probability that you will be rewarded is proportional to the value of the reward its self.

this doesn't always happen mind you since it is impossible to really predict the exact worth of something and adjust its drop rate accordingly .

however for the most part ggg has made it fair .


but there are some prominent exceptions to that

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Watching Crackmonster backpeddle in order to maintain a misguided argument is some of the best entertainment I can find.

This thread delivers, faster than the local Chinese joint. Of course, it contains about as much substantive "nutrition" as well.

considering you are among the people charan is referring too as using rng is rng as a straw man ,I am not at all surprised at your response .

one could even say your post has even less substance than the threads you strive so hard to insult and belittle.

You give me too much credit, I believe. I also believe that you may be misinterpreting Charan.

RNG is RNG, period. It exists, when I use the statement I use it as a tautology. By definition, that cannot be a "straw man".

I also readily admit that every single player will have different experiences of the RNG in PoE. Those experiences, filtered through the subjective perception of players, are what create an overall perception of the game in the mind of the player. I do not see any way to argue against that statement.

What may be up for debate is the extent to which individuals are able to distinguish between objective reality and subjective perception. This in no way discounts the frustration that some players experience as they subjectively perceive the same "RNG" that every other player experiences, but it also does not excuse the reality that the perceptions and experiences are still, at their core, subjective. If anything, my arguments tend towards attempting to press players into understanding their own subjectivity before they start to point the finger anywhere else.

If it is insulting to state that players take responsibility for their experiences in the game, then I am insulting. If it is belittling to drive home the point that many posters are, apparently, incapable of doing so, then I am belittling. Guilty as charged.

Personal Accountability and Responsibility are some really difficult bosses to overcome.

I play Path of Exile. It appears to me that many posters on these forums allow Path of Exile to play them.