The most overused strawman on these forums: "RNG is RNG"

This is currently the most OP thread on the forum.

mods plz nerf. kthx

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Xavderion wrote:

What happened is the gaming industry and the gamers themselves changed. The no-lifers from 10-15 years ago don't have that much time to play anymore, and the gamers of today are used to achieve something every 5 minutes (see CoD as an example of a game which rewards you for pretty much EVERYTHING you do). GGG could easily cater to today's gamers by implementing something stupid like daily/weekly quests from WoW and giving out currency/item tokens for them. That would eliminate RNG for those players and give them a guaranteed reward to work for, while the gamers who are stuck in the past and actually want to invest a lot of time can still play PoE as they do now. If implemented correctly, GGG wouldn't hurt their game and at the same time increase their revenue. Win-win imo.

... for the record... I just want it known that I'm an old school gamer and even in ridiculously hardcore games. Ultima Online. Prior to Trammel when you died, you lost everything you had on you. The moment they implemented Trammel (carebear land) I quit playing and never looked back. I am used to walking uphill both ways in the snow with no socks on.

That being said> this game isn't hardcore. It's also an ARPG. It also needs to standardize loot drops. It doesn't need dailies or weeklies. That's NOT what "my side" of this discussion are asking for. It needs to take the highest failure rates/experiences for crafting/drops and those with the best rates... and squish them towards each other for a more stable, normalized slope of success.

For example: if joe schmo 1 links 6L in 50 fuses and joe schmo 2 never 6L in 5000 fuses, would it not make more sense to have both be able to 6L in 1-1500 attempts? Is there no method or wiggle room here to have some sort of "guaranteed" timer in the upper ends of things but still keep the random "zomg I could 1 fuse!" that people seem to like?

Personally? I think it's totally possible and feasible to implement something like that. I would actually come back and play the moment they have that... or a "self found" style of permanent league with relaxed drop/craft ratios that suite the amount of time I can afford to play this game. (No: not ridiculous-you click a chest and get every single unique in the game-over the top drop/craft rates - but something better than what they currently are set up as.)

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tramshed wrote:

That idea would destroy the economy.

If implemented correctly, no. It would barely affect the economy at all. Casuals don't even participate in the economy and the hardcore players know more efficient ways to acquire currency and items (especially since they have much stronger characters than the average casual).

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

Soon we'll have entire threads with "[Removed by Support]". Then the mods will be happy.
When everything and everyone is under their censorship thumb.

They'd just delete those, and you won't have to worry about seeing it.

Maybe you won't even know it's happened.

Censorship is inevitable; you don't have freedom of speech here, thus the guidelines. Question is, would you rather it be visible censorship, or invisible?

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'RNG is RNG' is only a straw man argument if it's a fallacy used to unfairly inflate the case against the other side. And in a lot of cases, it isn't.

Example:

A: I hate that I never get item 'X' to drop! It's not fair!
B: RNG is RNG.

As Witt pointed out, that's a tautology. But it's not straw man, because the random nature of drops is the reason for person A not getting item X. The next item they get might just be it. There is some logical follow-through from A's claim to B's response. It's essentially saying 'tough luck, but you know how it is.'

but:

A: I hate that I never get item 'X' to drop! It's not fair!
B: we need RNG because without it there'd be no reason to keep playing, and everyone would quit because they'd get all the items they want immediately!

That *is* using RNG as a straw man argument, because while person A is arguing for a change in the magnitude of the situation, person B is making it a black and white situation, ignoring that even RNG can have scale and degrees affected by probability and range. What person B misses is that while 'RNG is RNG', you still have more chance of rolling a 6 on a six-sided dice than on a twenty-sided one...but it's still 'RNG'.

Oh hey, someone who actually understands what a straw man argument is and agrees that the statement "RNG is RNG" isnt a straw man.

+1

Random double post bug :l

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Oh hey, someone who actually understands what a straw man argument is and agrees that the statement "RNG is RNG" isnt a straw man.

+1

I blame the internet. It's kind of like how every idiot uses the words 'irony' or 'ironic' without having any clue what it actually means. /shrug

But yeah, thanks for that post Charan.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Oh hey, someone who actually understands what a straw man argument is and agrees that the statement "RNG is RNG" isnt a straw man.

+1

Yeah, funny thing... Charan actually has some idea of what he is talking about, he just gets the "his posts are irrelevant because he is a money paying fanboi" response a lot.

Which means, ironically, that he is singularly qualified to respond to statements about Strawmen.

Oh sure everyone give Charan the love :(

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

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Hyskoa wrote:

Soon we'll have entire threads with "[Removed by Support]". Then the mods will be happy.
When everything and everyone is under their censorship thumb.

They'd just delete those, and you won't have to worry about seeing it.

Maybe you won't even know it's happened.

Censorship is inevitable; you don't have freedom of speech here, thus the guidelines. Question is, would you rather it be visible censorship, or invisible?

I'd rather everybody who gets their post deleted or censored to post it to several other forums where the mods have no influence.
To discourage this type of behaviour.

As soon as the opening post is removed by support, the whole thread should be scraped.

On a side note, I was quite pleased when I saw an 'I quit because _______' thread get deleted few days ago.